4 week Primary: Ridiculous!

[gr8shandini]

Good thing we had you OP. We almost wasted a couple weeks of our beers life. You should probably tell john Palmer and Jamil that so they can learn!

Breweries have to turn around there batches quickly for profit so yeah they move fast through large pitches and filtration to get rid of yeast flavors ect. If the average home brewer doesnt filter to speed up conditioning than an extra week or two in the primary is beneficial for flavor. Bringing up the temp of the fermentor at the end of fermentation can speed that time up yeah but for the average homebrewer the 3-4 week in prkmary advice is very sound.

The trouble here is that the average advice for the average new brewer is now morphing into an edict for all brewers to follow the same advice regardless of process and experience. If you've brewed properly to begin with, at least half of those 3 to 4 weeks are just waiting for the yeast to fall to the bottom of the fermenter. There's no doubt that beer needs to be clear to be tasty, but you don't need a filtration system to get the yeast out of suspension well before they would on their own. A free fridge off of craigslist and 20 cents worth of gelatin will do the same thing in two to three days.

 

[bottlebomber]

I would agree that some beers can be done in 10 days, mostly beers with low to medium alcohol, and plenty of hops which in my mind basically showcase themselves and cover over all but the most exaggerated malt flavors. Most beers do benefit from aging though - time in the fermenter, time in the bottle/keg.

"Let your tastebuds guide you" isn't really sound advice though, because a noob isn't really sure what he's tasting or where its headed, he can only observe if there is an improvement, and overall if it tastes "good".
Beer is very complex though and I've had several beers go through stages of tasting good, then tasting hot, cidery, then finally developing into a mature brew. You have to observe this through experience before you can know what your doing, after which point the experience and suggestions of others are no longer useful. In the meantime, I find it to be very sound advice to new brewers to leave their beer alone for a few weeks. I've seen dozens of threads were beer has been racked after a week, only to stall or taste crappy. I have yet to see a thread where someone was complaining because doing an ample fermentation had harmed their beer.

More commonly they're bitching because they are eager to get drunk

 

[BOBrob]

I agree & disagree with the OP. I regurgitate 4 wks. "primary only", because it gives the noobs time to read & search HBT to gain the knowledge and experience needed to make a decent brew. Reassurance and a some what iffy time line are the benefits of the forums knowledge for the noobs with a $150 kit and no experience. We all preach patience; but to the new brewer the first thing they think of is. "How long is that"???? Cheers

 

[helibrewer]

i agree & disagree with the op. I regurgitate 4 wks. "primary only", because it gives the noobs time to read & search hbt to gain the knowledge and experience needed to make a decent brew. Reassurance and a some what iffy time line are the benefits of the forums knowledge for the noobs with a $150 kit and no experience. We all preach patience; but to the new brewer the first thing they think of is. "how long is that"???? Cheers

+1

 

[weirdboy]

I dunno, I have had even experienced (even professional!) brewers who ought to know better hand me a beer to taste that had acetaldehyde--a sure sign that they are pushing the beer out too fast. 99% of the time if I taste green apples in a beer, it's because they couldn't wait an extra week to let the flavor condition out. I won't name any names but I have been shocked a few times this year by the level of expertise some of these people exhibit in brewing, and still end up with acetaldehyde in beer they are serving when it is one of the easiest beer faults to fix by just WAITING.

I would rather let the beer go a week longer than a week too soon every time.

 

[mikeysab]

More commonly they're bitching because they are eager to get drunk

I've been brewing for three years and that's still my main concern. I've learned to tame the beast though and let my beers mature before getting all crazy and bottling way too soon. Now I"m not saying that I HAVE, and I'm not saying that I HAVE NOT drank straight from the fermenter, but doing so is much better after 4 weeks......I've heard.....from a guy......on the internet.

PS, I didn't mail your stuff yet. My daughter is sick and my MIL just had major surgery, so I've been kooked up in the house all day. I'll try to get it out when I get a second during the day.

 

[Airborneguy]

I agree also most beers i make even Lagers
Are drinkable in 2 weeks.

You may think you make lagers that are drinkable in two weeks...

 

[Calichusetts]

These posts got a little crazy at times, but there is a good point throughout that beginners are getting two (maybe three) different answers to the "how long to primary" question:

1. Wait until gravity readings are the same for three days

2. 4 weeks

These don't match up, which sort of leads to the main idea behind the original post...bottle when its right for you

I wait two weeks minimum, but often bottle when I simply need another carboy so I can brew. Often times, my addiction to brewing outweighs my desire to drink

 

[dienster]

So we shouldn't listen to what someone else says but we should listen to what you say?

Listen to the beer. Become yeast whisperers.

 

[mikeysab]

I become a yeast whisperer the day after drinking my homebrew.

 

[Airborneguy]

You become a yeast curser the day after drinking your homebrew!

 

[mikeysab]

Haha, I had a bomber of that black ipa last night. So far no side effects of homebrew consumption

 

[Yooper]

I think this is a valuable discussion, as long as we can talk like adults about our experiences. But using words like "ridiculous" can sometimes ruffle feathers, so let's keep our discussion civil.

I'm one of those people who have said all along that stating unequivocally that a 4 week primary is standard is not really bad advice- just not necessary.

In a well-made beer with proper pitch rate, proper fermentation temperature, correct ingredients (no "harsh" flavors to mellow out), proper mash techniques, etc, there is no need for much "cleanup" to be done. If off-flavors are avoided in the first place, there is not much need for it to age out. Once primary fermentation slows (usually by day 5 or so), the yeast will then do their work cleaning up diacetyl and acetaldehyde. This takes a day or two, in a healthy yeast population. So by day 7-10, the beer should have done all the fermenting, cleaning up, and so on it would do and start to clear. With a flocculant yeast strain, the beer is often clear by day 7-10.

One of the ways I know when to package is when the beer is clear. I never have gone longer than 3 weeks in primary (as the beer is always clear by then) but I believe that no harm would come in 4-6 weeks in primary either. That's a matter of personal preference for sure.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

The trouble here is that the average advice for the average new brewer is now morphing into an edict for all brewers to follow the same advice regardless of process and experience. If you've brewed properly to begin with, at least half of those 3 to 4 weeks are just waiting for the yeast to fall to the bottom of the fermenter. There's no doubt that beer needs to be clear to be tasty, but you don't need a filtration system to get the yeast out of suspension well before they would on their own. A free fridge off of craigslist and 20 cents worth of gelatin will do the same thing in two to three days.

^^^^^This^^^^^^

Practice proper sanitation, make quality, aerated wort, pitch healthy, and appropriately sized starter for both volume and gravity, and control the fermenting temperature of the beer. You'll be able to move your beer into bottle or keg when it has reached terminal gravity + 2 days.

Will leaving the beer in the fermenter for an extended period hurt? Probably not. IMO, it's not necessary if you follow the above listed steps.

 

[TyTanium]

...In a well-made beer with proper pitch rate, proper fermentation temperature, correct ingredients (no "harsh" flavors to mellow out), proper mash techniques, etc, there is no need for much "cleanup" to be done.

+1 Totally agree. Seeing as that's quite a long list of assumptions to be met, many brewers, especially new brewers, may not have all that stuff down, hence why many may benefit from longer primary. Since it can't (shouldn't) get worse, and can only get better, leave it if you have any doubts.
Personally, I bottle when 1) gravity is steady 2) it tastes awesome 3) when I have time to bottle

This entire thread was ridiculous, btw.

 

[mikeysab]

^^^^^This^^^^^^

Practice proper sanitation, make quality, aerated wort, pitch healthy, and appropriately sized starter for both volume and gravity. You'll be able to move your beer into bottle or keg when it has reached terminal gravity + 2 days.

Will leaving the beer in the fermenter for an extended period hurt? Probably not. IMO, it's not necessary if you follow the above listed steps.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I find it curious how you can agree that new hombrewers advice is becoming an edict to follow, then say extended primary isn't necessary if you follow the steps you listed. By your advice, you can follow all the steps you listed, then ferment your beer out in the sun in the middle of summer and it'll take 7 to 10 days to be yummy golden deliciousness. Okay, you didn't say that, but you get the point.

In my experience, the biggest improvement to my beers have been these:

Figuring out how much yeast to pitch, and actually pitching that amount or slightly more. Lower lag times and unstressed, happy yeast that don't have to fight for sugar have made better beer then when I was pitching a smack pack that sat in my fridge for 6 months.

Fermentation temperature control. Before I built my fermentation chamber, my brew closet was nowhere near a steady temperature. It was too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer, which gave me about 4 months out of the year with acceptable temperatures for decent fermentations. You don't even want to taste Yoopers DFH 60 clone fermented in the mid to upper 80's. (Not a knock on your recipe, Yoop, that's a knock on poor fermentation temperatures, but you get it....I hope)

But all that means nothing if you're brewing some crazy, high gravity beer with a grain bill that looks like an encyclopedia. Some malts or malt combinations need some time to mellow out. If anyone can give me a recipe for a 11 percent RIS that's ready in ten days, I'll brew it tomorrow so I can gladly make this years christmas one for the ages. It depends on the recipe, the ingredients, brewing practices, temperatures.....more than just the calendar.

Like I said in another thread, this is one of those topics that there's no solid answer on. Yes, you can make beer in 10 days, perfectly drinkable and tasty too. There's also beers that take a little longer to become palatable and ready for enjoyment.

 

[gr8shandini]

. . . Seeing as that's quite a long list of assumptions to be met, many brewers, especially new brewers, may not have all that stuff down, hence why many may benefit from longer primary. . . .

I don't disagree with that. However, as I mentioned before, if your only advice for the new guy is to wait longer, you're not helping him out as much as you could. I'd rather point them in the right direction straight away by saying "that'll age out after a few weeks, but if you want to know how to avoid it in the first place, do this next time. . ."

 

[Hugh_Jass]

d

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I find it curious how you can agree that new hombrewers advice is becoming an edict to follow, then say extended primary isn't necessary if you follow the steps you listed. By your advice, you can follow all the steps you listed, then ferment your beer out in the sun in the middle of summer and it'll take 7 to 10 days to be yummy golden deliciousness. Okay, you didn't say that, but you get the point.

In my experience, the biggest improvement to my beers have been these:

Figuring out how much yeast to pitch, and actually pitching that amount or slightly more. Lower lag times and unstressed, happy yeast that don't have to fight for sugar have made better beer then when I was pitching a smack pack that sat in my fridge for 6 months.

Fermentation temperature control. Before I built my fermentation chamber, my brew closet was nowhere near a steady temperature. It was too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer, which gave me about 4 months out of the year with acceptable temperatures for decent fermentations. You don't even want to taste Yoopers DFH 60 clone fermented in the mid to upper 80's. (Not a knock on your recipe, Yoop, that's a knock on poor fermentation temperatures, but you get it....I hope)

But all that means nothing if you're brewing some crazy, high gravity beer with a grain bill that looks like an encyclopedia. Some malts or malt combinations need some time to mellow out. If anyone can give me a recipe for a 11 percent RIS that's ready in ten days, I'll brew it tomorrow so I can gladly make this years christmas one for the ages. It depends on the recipe, the ingredients, brewing practices, temperatures.....more than just the calendar.

Like I said in another thread, this is one of those topics that there's no solid answer on. Yes, you can make beer in 10 days, perfectly drinkable and tasty too. There's also beers that take a little longer to become palatable and ready for enjoyment.

corrected to mention temp control. Thanks.

 

[TyTanium]

I don't disagree with that. However, as I mentioned before, if your only advice for the new guy is to wait longer, you're not helping him out as much as you could. I'd rather point them in the right direction straight away by saying "that'll age out after a few weeks, but if you want to know how to avoid it in the first place, do this next time. . ."

Excellent point.

 

[mikeysab]

d

corrected to mention temp control. Thanks.

Now I need to correct mine for mash temp control. Thats another one of my big improvements. I used to get all flustered and say "ah, 158 is close enough". Until my amber finished 20 poionts too high and undrinkable.

Another bad piece of advice people give to new brewers is "Makin beer is easy, its not rocket science". Its not the most difficult thing in the world to do, but it takes attention to details like temperatures. Temperatures from liquor to fermenting wort, and even as far down as bottle carbing, temperatures are probably the most important thing to make great beer. Sure, you'll make beer with close mash temps, wort chilled till its warm to the touch, and uncontrolled fermentation tempdratures, but good luck drinking it.

For the record, i'm no pro, and certainly no genius. I've made some real stinkers, and i've made some good brews. When I stick to my techniques and don't get lazy, I make good beer. When I get all flustered and sat eff it, this will be good enough, I get less then great results.

 

[BierMuncher]

• 80+ distinct beer styles (according to the BJCP).
• OG’s range from 1028 to 1130
• IBU’s range from 8 to 120
• Within each beer style, OG’s can vary greatly, some as much as 30 points and FG’s as much as 38 points.
• IBU’s can commonly have a 10-15 point range and still be within style. IIPA’s can swing as much as 60 points.

No standard answer exists for any phase of the brewing process. Trust your hydrometer. Trust your eyes, nose and palette. Learn from your experiences.

Keeping a 1030 Mild in a primary for 4 weeks is as unnecessary as keeping an IIPA in for 1 week is likely disastrous.