3724 and 3711 Saison Yeast

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Hollingsworth

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Hi all, longtime reader, first time poster.

I am on my 4th and 5th batch of saison at the moment. I have a 3711 (petite, from northern brewer) and a 3724 (regular saison, from northern brewer).

Both have been fermenting for about a week and a half, 3724 at around 80, 3711 probably a few degrees lower. Like most, my 3724 started fast, slowed to no visible activity, and then I ramped back up the temperatures and gave a swirl--and its back at it

Two questions:
How long have folks let both of these yeasts go in the fermenter? Recommend secondary?

Does anybody pitch yeast cake into already fermenting brew? I have a buddy who swears I should take 3711 yeast cake (which should finish before the 3724) and pitch it into the 3724 in about a week. To me, risk of infection of the dead yeast cells isn't worth it--but the thought of a funky saison hybrid does sound good.

Thanks!
 
There shouldn't be a risk of infection, and I know quite a few people do that. The 3711 is a beast and will really dry your 3724 beer right out. Just depends on how dry you want it. I had one stall at 1.040 and put 3711 in there. It finished at 1.002!
 
As long as the 3724 is bubbling away, I'd let it work solo, unless you're getting impatient. If you do decide to add 3711, harvest enough 3724 to reuse first.
 
I did a saison a while ago. I originally pitched 3724. Gave some great flavors but was take forever. After a month it was only down to 1.020. So I pitched 3711 and it was down to 1.005 within a week. So I would attempt to finish the batch with its original yeast, but if it's taking too long, or your impatient, toss it on the 3711. Should finish it up while keeping the original character.

And as long as your clean I would not worry about infection.
 
I would let the 3724 finish as much as it's going to. It should reach the FG if given warmth and time. I don't know what you're doing to control temps but try to avoid any swings from day/night. I've insulated mine with a sleeping bag and add warm warm water bottles; it's been holding strong at 85 and dropped to 1.014 in 12 days. Like you, I was planning on using 3711 as a backup in the event that it got stuck at the dreaded 1.030, but at this point I think I'm going to let it ride. If you do decide to pitch the 3711 slurry, I wouldn't pitch the whole cake. I would try to calculate a reasonable amount using Mr. Malty calc.
 
I dont think there is huge risk in using cake from 3711, it will work and your beer will be fine and dry but I would just wait for 3724 to finish on its own and when its done appreciate diference in flavor between 2 beers.
 
+1 Wait and taste the difference. You could harvest/wash the 3711 yeast cake and use it later if you're feeling crafty.
+1 Secondary, and maybe see if you can bump the temp up a bit?

What SG is the 3724 stuck at?
 
The 3724 was at 1.028 the other day, there is still slow activity after about 9 days, looks to be picking up this evening, i dialed up the temp to atleast 85ish (towels and heating pad). I like the idea of waiting to compare the two yeasts.

These were the first two saisons where I havent added sugar (usually candi). Does anybody have experience adding a small amount of sugar during fermentation? How about dry hopping? I am going to try to get creative with my next belgian brew
 
I added honey to my current batch after about 7 days. Formed a new krausen within 30 min!
 
I'm currently fermenting an all-pilsener (i.e. Saison Dupont clone) split batch with 5 gallons each of 3724 and 3711. Each fermentor has been going steady for 4 days. The 3711 has been more vigorous for longer(temp at 73-75F). I ramped the 3724 up to 91F over 2 days after the first sign of active fermentation. It's still going, and I'm going to try to wait it out. Hoping it will be done in two weeks, but I'll wait as long as needed. Last time I used 3724 it got stuck and I got impatient. I finished it with some 3787 and it tasted great, really nice fruit flavors.
 
I brewed the same Saison from NB with 3724 on 21 JUL. I came home from a business trip today and took a 1.034 reading. After doing some research, it seems that this strain is slow moving. Its still bubbling away after sitting at 80 degrees for 12 days. I'm going to let it do its thing for a while. I stirred it today, lets see how that works!

I'll be away on business again next week. So I really don't care how long it takes.
 
It's going to be in the 90s today, and it was hot yesterday, and will be hot again tomorrow. Mine is at 5 days now and I'm going to take a reading and give mine a stir this morning and then let it sit with 3724 until Sunday. Then I'll decide if I want to add yeast.

I did the reading and it was at 1.017. I guess I'm not getting stuck. I gave it a stir and put the airlock back on. It tasted a little sour, but I'll wait until it is done before I pass judgement.
 
I took another reading and it is at 1.014 today, and a lot less sour tasting. When I took the reading yesterday it was 7am, a little early to be drinking and I only took a small taste. It's already well past beer:30 now so I'm getting a better taste of it. It is still bubbling away on day 6. Temp was about 90 today and there is no A/C in my kitchen.
 
I believe Neva Parker from Whites Labs has said that Belgian saison yeast have a higher oxygen requirement and that maybe why it stalls. I think it was in her talk at Northern Brewer, which you can find on YouTube.
 
It needs more heat. I have a Saison going with wlp565 which is notorious for getting stuck, I brought it up from 80 to 100 degrees :eek over 3 days and it just chugged right on down into the single digits.
 
Nice to see another Hollingsworth brewing!

I have a Saison with 3724 just about ready for secondary, but haven't pulled any samples yet, so no worthwhile comment. But wanted to say hello.

I've read that 3711 has an amazing flavor profile but it was out when I ordered my yeast. Any word from anyone on 3711 vs 3724 with regards to flavor/aroma?
 
Sounds like you're chugging right along!
Just for reference, what SG did the 3724 start at (and what's your preferred/target SG)?
Are you agitating it at all?

From everything I've read and experienced with the Wyeast 37 series (though I've only used 3725 myself), all the conventional temperature rules go out the window. I pitched my most recent batch into 85F wort and I'm guessing it got close to 90F at high krausen, and it tastes great. I have no idea if they care about daily temp swings, though...
 
Nice link. I checked my 3724 today, day 15, and its at 1.012. Not sure what the OG was, lost my notes. Temp around 80. I dont plan on touching this one again for a few weeks

The 3711 is very very slowly finishing its last bit, I still have the temp a few degrees below 80. This OG was 1.056, but sure the current gravity because I am fermenting directly in the carboy. I am going to bottle this next week.

In true Belgian style, I also bought a corker and plan to be using some old Saison and Hennepin bottles
 
I just checked mine and it hasn't moved for 2 days, and 2 very hot days at that. It's at 1.014. I have another 3 days of high 80s forecast then it cools to the low 80s.
 
Zacster, what day are you on?

I accidentally let the temperatures run up to nearly 90 in the room the 3724 was in and an interesting thing happened, airlock activity stopped, I moved it back to 80-85 and it perked back up within 30 mins. Ive never seen yeast like this
 
I am at day 8, brewed on Sunday and today is Monday, so it hasn't been that long. I was actually surprised by the gravity after 5 days. I thought it would take much longer.
 
1.012 today, day 10, still dropping. Another .004 and I'll call it ready. Really tasty now. A little carb, a little colder, and I think I have a winner.
 
How did it come out? I am bottling my 3724 this weekend (4.5 weeks on primary, 1 week in secondary). Bottled the 3711 after 3.5 weeks and already opened a few bottles and its great. It has a sweetness from the yeast that is amazing, and I added no sugar.
 
It isn't done yet, but I transferred to secondary at 1.008 and dry-hopped with both of my original hops, Northern Brewer for a citrusy aroma, and 7272 experimental hops for whatever they offer, both leaf hops. I'm going to pull the hops over this weekend and transfer to my keg and do a slow carb in there. It is already pretty clear too, but it should clarify further in the keg. It has a tangy dry taste in my samples, lots of malt, but I didn't have the hops in my last sample.
 
I was checking it again last night by shining my new super bright bike light through it to check the clarity and noticed it was still bubbling away inside. I suspected as much because the airlock that I filled with Starsan solution had a small honeycomb pattern of bubbles in it. I'm wondering if it is really still fermenting in the secondary, or it is just letting off gas.

I wanted to keg it this weekend, but my CO2 tank is empty and there isn't any place to fill it on weekends. It's one of those businesses that is only open during the regular work week, when we all work.

And if you haven't bought a flashlight lately, damn they are bright. There are big improvements, just over last year's models. On top of the brightness of the LEDs, they consume very little power.
 

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