30 min mash Success!

[Supertrapped]

My efficiency is good, 80-85% estimated, with a little embarrassment, I'll admit I don't track the numbers hard but get reasonable consistent gravities from my grain bills. Last time I tried to hard check my efficiency, I realized my wort volume was plus minus a quart on a 7.5 gallon batch, so that's around 3-4% right there, and I lost interest pinpointing.
I have a couple hundred pounds of grain in the pantry, so consistency and reasonable efficiency works for me.

I guess I brew for fun not to crunch numbers....and I'm an engineer as well haha....

I crush till I have very near zero whole grains remaining, coarse corn meal would describe my grist, well crushed but not crazy fine. Works great for BIAB and also batch sparging with a braid.

Excellent.

I've read some of your other posts. Very informative. Thanks for the help.

 

[Psylocide]

Agreed, dunk sparging is a hassle with larger batches IMO . I have found the easiest BIAB method for me is mashing in a gallon or so short of full volume, then doing a small pour over sparge to reach post boil volume while the bag is hanging and draining over the kettle.

Makes managing water volumes very easy and straightforward, just measure what's in the kettle and sparge till your happy.

Yeah, for now it's just a limitation of my kettle. It's embarrassing that I'm doing 5.5 gal batches in a 6 gal and 3.5 gal kettle. That means I get to do two boils concurrently to reach my final volume of 5.5 gal into the fermenter.

I am awesome.

I wanted to add Gavin C's post to the original post, but can't seem to edit that post. I'll see if I can't get it added somehow, that was awesome info.

 

[wilserbrewer]

It's embarrassing that I'm doing 5.5 gal batches in a 6 gal and 3.5 gal kettle. That means I get to do two boils concurrently to reach my final volume of 5.5 gal into the fermenter.

I am awesome.
.

I would say Innovative and determined, nothing wrong with performing some work arounds to make the equipment you have work, it shows you understand the process. I don't like responses that read "you need this...you need that", in reality you can make good beer with very little, just some way to lauter and boil, the rest is up to the brewer.

 

[Psylocide]

I would say Innovative and determined, nothing wrong with performing some work arounds to make the equipment you have work, it shows you understand the process. I don't like responses that read "you need this...you need that", in reality you can make good beer with very little, just some way to lauter and boil, the rest is up to the brewer.

Thanks for the kind words, but I'd save a ton of hassle if I weren't so cheap.

Right now I have 2 ends working against each other, I don't want to spend a ton of money, but I want to shorten the "active" brewing time.

You better believe I know who to contact for a bag once I get my "grown up" kettle.

 

[beernutz]

I have used this schedule the last two times I've brewed in order to complete the process in under 4 hours and both times the resulting beer was great. I have thought about reducing the boil time by using both my heat stick and my natural gas burner at the same time to get a more vigorous boil so that I could maybe shave another 15 minutes off the process. I have gotten about 76% efficiency both times which is just a few points lower than when I do 60 minute mashes and longer sparges. YMMV.

Brew day start time: 6:15:00 AM
	
start time	duration	end time	

move structure, fill and heat mash water, weigh and crush grains, add to mash tun	
0:00:00	0:40:00	6:55:00 AM

[B]add mash water to grain, set pH and mash[/B]	
0:40:00	[B]0:30:00[/B]	7:25:00 AM

vorloff and drain	
1:10:00	0:10:00	7:35:00 AM

batch sparge, weigh hops	
1:20:00	0:20:00	7:55:00 AM

start and bring to boil, add simethicone	
1:40:00	0:15:00	8:10:00 AM

boil, add hops, Whirlfloc	
1:55:00	1:00:00	9:10:00 AM

cool with CFC and pitch yeast starter	
2:55:00	0:20:00	9:30:00 AM

clean up, put away	
3:15:00	0:30:00	10:00:00 AM

Total time: 3:45:00

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'd save a ton of hassle if I weren't so cheap.

............... once I get my "grown up" kettle.

10 gallon aluminum pot shipped to your nearest Staples store, only $29

http://www.staples.com/Supera-AP-40-40-qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_1115499

Long ways from a Blichmann, but it will certainly work well for 5 gallon full volume brewing.....

OH you wanna do 10 gallon batches, 80 qt for $57
http://www.staples.com/Supera-AP-80-80-qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_1115173

cheers!

 

[Psylocide]

10 gallon aluminum pot shipped to your nearest Staples store, only $29

http://www.staples.com/Supera-AP-40-40-qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_1115499

Long ways from a Blichmann, but it will certainly work well for 5 gallon full volume brewing.....

OH you wanna do 10 gallon batches, 80 qt for $57
http://www.staples.com/Supera-AP-80-80-qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_1115173

cheers!

Yeah, I'm trying to decide between the 80 and the 60. But, you know me well, because that's exactly where I'll be getting it from, lol.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yeah, I'm trying to decide between the 80 and the 60. But, you know me well, because that's exactly where I'll be getting it from, lol.

What your really deciding is what size batches you'll be brewing.....

5 gallon batches w/ occasional 10 gallon.....15 gallon pot

10 gallon batches w/ occasional 5 gallon.....20 gallon pot

 

[Psylocide]

What your really deciding is what size batches you'll be brewing.....

5 gallon batches w/ occasional 10 gallon.....15 gallon pot

10 gallon batches w/ occasional 5 gallon.....20 gallon pot

Yeah, should probably just spring for the 20... still less than I quoted the boss (SWMBO).

I'm mainly doing ~6% APAs as I like to keep them on tap, and 15 gal would be just squeaking by for full volume mash 10 gal batches.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Or a 7.75 gal 1/4b batch works great for a 15 gal kettle if you can source some sanke tall 1/4 kegs...just a thought.

 

[Psylocide]

Or a 7.75 gal 1/4b batch works great for a 15 gal kettle if you can source some sanke tall 1/4 kegs...just a thought.

Appreciate all the input... it's going to be the 20 though, if I could do a 10 gallon batch, I'd only have to brew once a month to keep beer on tap.

 

[Gavin C]

Appreciate all the input... it's going to be the 20 though, if I could do a 10 gallon batch, I'd only have to brew once a month to keep beer on tap.

The wallet can handle it I'm sure. What about the stove? You might need a propane burner, outside setup etc. Getting dangerously close to a major upgrade here.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU[/ame]

 

[Psylocide]

The wallet can handle it I'm sure. What about the stove? You might need a propane burner, outside setup etc. Getting dangerously close to a major upgrade here.

Thanks for the concern brother! Lol.

I mash indoors... I boil outdoors on a propane burner. Should still work as soon as I get my kettle and insulate it like your fancy kettle.

 

[Gavin C]

I can relax so.

 

[Psylocide]

Well, pulled the trigger on this one this morning:

http://www.staples.com/Update-International-80-Qt-Aluminum-Stock-Pot/product_462933

I went with this slightly more expensive one because the lid was included (wasn't with the other pot and they wanted $15 for the lid, so I'm actually ahead).

I have to modify my turkey fryer so it'll fit, it's got a ring that holds the pot which is too small. I could set it on top, but then the pot will be ~5 in from the flame. Oh well... nothing a little torch action and welding can't handle.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Nice addition. Now that I've used it, I kind of regret getting the kettle with the spigot on it. I see no need to use it right now. Also slightly upset that I jumped on the propane burner that I bought. It works great, but I just saw on the same site, a tiered system with multiple burners for only twice the cost or so. Not that I need it right now but.. maybe later.

 

[Psylocide]

Nice addition. Now that I've used it, I kind of regret getting the kettle with the spigot on it. I see no need to use it right now. Also slightly upset that I jumped on the propane burner that I bought. It works great, but I just saw on the same site, a tiered system with multiple burners for only twice the cost or so. Not that I need it right now but.. maybe later.

I would like a spigot, but not going to put one on this pot. The siphon works well enough, but it's going to be a bear lifting a 10 gallon batch up off the burner to get it high enough to let gravity do the trick.

Luckily I'm young and strong like ox.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Luckily I'm young and strong like ox.

Even ox can burn, just let the wort cool prior to moving. Since you mentioned you have welding ability, perhaps some legs for your burner are in order....nothing but a few pieces of scrap steel? I have actually resorted to using a sanitized one gallon pitcher to transfer a 15 gallon batch to the fermenter, just another work around like bailing out a boat

Yea, I've moved some hot kettles in my day, but 5-10 gallons of boiling hot liquid could put you in the hospital for a while, skin grafts aren't fun so I've heard.

Congrats on the new kettle purchase, when you see how large a 20 gallon pot is compared to what your using now your gonna be in awe....

ps that's a great deal for kettle and lid, I hope it's not a typo re the lid.

 

[Psylocide]

Even ox can burn, just let the wort cool prior to moving. Since you mentioned you have welding ability, perhaps some legs for your burner are in order....nothing but a few pieces of scrap steel? I have actually resorted to using a sanitized one gallon pitcher to transfer a 15 gallon batch to the fermenter, just another work around like bailing out a boat

Yea, I've moved some hot kettles in my day, but 5-10 gallons of boiling hot liquid could put you in the hospital for a while, skin grafts aren't fun so I've heard.

Yeah... I've considered a small stand for the burner, I'll probably get some scrap and throw one together at some point.

Congrats on the new kettle purchase, when you see how large a 20 gallon pot is compared to what your using now your gonna be in awe....

ps that's a great deal for kettle and lid, I hope it's not a typo re the lid.

Yeah, it's going to be so great. I hated my dual boil, so this is going to be awesome. Can't wait to try a full volume mash too, but have seen that efficiency can suffer some... not sure if there's much truth to that or not.

re: the lid, if it is a typo, I'll direct them to their website and get what I paid for.

 

[Magnus314]

I used some scrap 2X6 and a 2'X2' piece of plywood to make a tiny stage for my brew kettle so I can fit the fermenter right under it.

Might work for you.

 

[PhinneyWoodBrews]

I would like a spigot, but not going to put one on this pot. The siphon works well enough, but it's going to be a bear lifting a 10 gallon batch up off the burner to get it high enough to let gravity do the trick.

Luckily I'm young and strong like ox.

Just be sure you're not stronger than the handles on that pot. If they fail, it won't matter how easy it was for you to throw it around. You're going to enter a world of pain. Brew safe and cheers!
Alex

 

[Gavin C]

OG 1.045 FG 1.010 @Biermuncher 's Centenial Blonde with some recipe modification.

• Reduced Grain Bill
• Hops altered to allow for differing AA%
• S-05 not Notty

Beer on a cloudy day

 

[Gavin C]

deleted

 

[Psylocide]

OG 1.045 FG 1.010 Biermuncher's Centenial Blonde with some recipe modification.

Beer on a cloudy dayView attachment 271675

Looks great!

Notice anything "off" that you might attribute to the shorter mash or is it basically what you were expecting?

Nice garden btw...

 

[Gavin C]

Looks great!

Notice anything "off" that you might attribute to the shorter mash or is it basically what you were expecting?

Nice garden btw...

Was hoping for a brighter picture but its all clouds and rain in North TX at the moment. The beer tastes good and attenuated pretty well. Compares similarly to other brews with S-05 in terms of attenuation.

I'm really not skilled enough to know if my beers have off flavors. I like it. This will be one of two that I plan on entering in a competition in May. Hopefully will get it sorted out this week end and have a BJCP experts report to report some time in the future. My lager won't be ready in time (30 min mash brew) for that comp but I will enter it in one too and get the data to you.

I reckon without a BJCP judge's nose and taste buds being involved one cannot say with any degree of impartiality that a beer is good/bad/great/poor. I think my beer is tasty, but what the flock do I know.

The garden is getting nice and green these days before it gets burnt up in a few months.

 

[Psylocide]

Was hoping for a brighter picture but its all clouds and rain in North TX at the moment. The beer tastes good and attenuated pretty well. Compares similarly to other brews with S-05 in terms of attenuation.

I'm really not skilled enough to know if my beers have off flavors. I like it. This will be one of two that I plan on entering in a competition in May. Hopefully will get it sorted out this week end and have a BJCP experts report to report some time in the future. My lager won't be ready in time (30 min mash brew) for that comp but I will enter it in one too and get the data to you.

I reckon without a BJCP judge's nose and taste buds being involved one cannot say with any degree of impartiality that a beer is good/bad/great/poor. I think my beer is tasty, but what the flock do I know.

The garden is getting nice and green these days before it gets burnt up in a few months.

I've got to believe that you've made enough beer with your current process that you could say "Damn, something is off here."

Either way, thanks again for sharing.

 

[Gavin C]

Definitely nothing off in comparison to my other brews. Point taken Psy.

I am very pleased with the beer. It is disappearing fast.

30 minutes mashing will be my new standard mash (with a mash out) for the time being I reckon

 

[Supertrapped]

Ok. So, shorter mash times are awesome.

Would a lowered mash temp be any longer? Like, a saison consisting of mainly pilsner, ground fine, and mashed at 148. Typically, it needs 75-90minutes standard mash time, standard grind, correct? So, anyone have a clue what this might equAte to?

 

[TexasWine]

Ok. So, shorter mash times are awesome.

Would a lowered mash temp be any longer? Like, a saison consisting of mainly pilsner, ground fine, and mashed at 148. Typically, it needs 75-90minutes standard mash time, standard grind, correct? So, anyone have a clue what this might equAte to?

Not sure what the answer is, but you should take measurements as the mash progresses. Once you hit the gravity you're looking for you should be done, right?

 

[Magnus314]

Not in my experience.

75 minutes @ 149 with a fine crush gets me a 1.000 beer from the standard BM Centennial Blonde recipe.

If that's not what you want, then you'd probably want to mash shorter.

EDIT: I foyu mean because Belgian Pilsner is less modified, then you'd probably still want to mash shorter, but I don't know how much shorter.

 

[Gavin C]

Yeah, for now it's just a limitation of my kettle. It's embarrassing that I'm doing 5.5 gal batches in a 6 gal and 3.5 gal kettle. That means I get to do two boils concurrently to reach my final volume of 5.5 gal into the fermenter.

I am awesome.

I wanted to add Gavin C's post to the original post, but can't seem to edit that post. I'll see if I can't get it added somehow, that was awesome info.

Just a quick update Psy

My Munich Helles hybrid lager is kegged (30 min mash)
OG 1.048 FG 1.010
Right on the nose of what I was shooting for. It's still clearing but It tasting good. BTW wasn't able to get the beers shipped to Oregon for the competition I mentioned. FedEx UPS turned me down. Would not ship beer. Looking for a local comp for this lager. I drank the stout and blonde in a rage after driving hither and thither with my beers in boxes. My rage was rapidly subverted by my no award winning brews.

 

[TheCADJockey]

FedEx UPS turned me down. Would not ship beer. Looking for a local comp for this lager.

You're not supposed to tell them you're shipping beer! Just tell them you are sending jars of home made pickles to your cousin. When they look at you funny for sending three, large boxes... just smile and say he really, really loves pickles.

My first competition entry was lost between the lhbs and judges at some point, so it never got judged :rockin:

 

[Psylocide]

Just a quick update Psy

My Munich Helles hybrid lager is kegged (30 min mash)
OG 1.048 FG 1.010
Right on the nose of what I was shooting for. It's still clearing but It tasting good. BTW wasn't able to get the beers shipped to Oregon for the competition I mentioned. FedEx UPS turned me down. Would not ship beer. Looking for a local comp for this lager. I drank the stout and blonde in a rage after driving hither and thither with my beers in boxes. My rage was rapidly subverted by my no award winning brews.

Did you tell them there was beer in there? I think you have to leave that part out.

Either way, if the beer tastes good to you... I don't think it matters if you've received an award for it or not.

I also have an update... did a MO/Amarillo SMaSH with a 30 min mash, got 75% efficiency once again using my old two kettle, sparge to volume method.

I mashed at 154° in an attempt to get it closer to my target FG using my system. As most know, these have been attenuating further than expected. I was shooting for 1.014 down from 1.061, and got pretty close at 1.012 FG using rehydrated Notty.

I fermented for 1 week @ ~67°, dry hopped for 5 days and kegged Sunday. It's been carbing/crashing for 3 days and was still somewhat cloudy going into the keg (obviously, given the timeline).

I'll pull the first pint(s) on Friday to see where it's at carb/clarity-wise.

It was delicious though.

 

[Gavin C]

Yea. I told them there was beer there. I think UPS can ship alcohol as far as I know, just not the office I went to: each one is differently licensed. Fedex and of course USPS is a no across the board.

Shipping was going to be pricey anyway so I'll just stick to local area competitions for now. I figure, liquids get scrutinized very closely these days in shipping and would not want to lose the beer in the mail. Nor would I want to pique the curiosity of law enforcement. I am a visitor in this land after all. @thecadjockey 's pickle idea is probably the best one.

I'm not a member of a club so don't have any BJCP certified folks in my circle.That's easily rectified I suppose. There is a local comp coming up in DFW. If my "lager" is ready I'll try to enter it.

I edited my earlier post in the thread to add the FG Data.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I also have an update... did a MO/Amarillo SMaSH with a 30 min mash, got 75% efficiency once again using my old two kettle, sparge to volume method.

I mashed at 154° in an attempt to get it closer to my target FG using my system. As most know, these have been attenuating further than expected. I was shooting for 1.014 down from 1.061, and got pretty close at 1.012 FG using rehydrated Notty.

I fermented for 1 week @ ~67°, dry hopped for 5 days and kegged Sunday. It's been carbing/crashing for 3 days and was still somewhat cloudy going into the keg (obviously, given the timeline).

Not to invade the thread any more than I have with my nonsense, but this may be a nice comparison.

In an eerily weird coincidence... I also recently did a MO/Nugget SMaSH:

Grain: UK Marris Otter
Hops: Nugget (pellet boil/whole leaf dry hop)
Mash time: 90 minute
Mash temp: 157°
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.012
Yeast: Notty (rehydrated)
Efficiency: ~80%

It was my first all-grain recipe on new equipment. I had no intent on attempting a 30 min mash but the longer mash and high temps were due to unfamiliarity using this system for the first time. The 90 min. mash time came from not having my sparge water up to temp. fast enough, and the higher mash temp was a miscalculation of heat loss. The Igloo MT held temp. way better than I had expected.

I fermented for 1 week at a slightly cooler temperature of 60°-65°, dry hopped for 5-6 days, kegged and bottled on Monday. It was also fairly cloudy. The taste was herbal, spicy and dry with an assaulting aroma. The first full pour will be on Friday as well.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I am a visitor in this land after all. @thecadjockey 's pickle idea is probably the best one.

I made an account with FedEx online. When I ship, I just print out my label on their site, seal and package the box up tight, slap the label on it and take it to a FedEx Kinkos location. They take it, weigh it and give me a receipt. Many times they don't even say hi, just take it and go on their way. What they don't know, they don't care about.

 

[Gavin C]

Not to invade the thread any more than I have with my nonsense, but this may be a nice comparison.

In an eerily weird coincidence... I also recently did a MO/Nugget SMaSH:

Grain: UK Marris Otter
Hops: Nugget (pellet boil/whole leaf dry hop)
Mash time: 90 minute
Mash temp: 157°
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.012
Yeast: Notty (rehydrated)
Efficiency: ~80%

It was my first all-grain recipe on new equipment. I had no intent on attempting a 30 min mash but the longer mash and high temps were due to unfamiliarity using this system for the first time. The 90 min. mash time came from not having my sparge water up to temp. fast enough, and the higher mash temp was a miscalculation of heat loss. The Igloo MT held temp. way better than I had expected.

I fermented for 1 week at a slightly cooler temperature of 60°-65°, dry hopped for 5-6 days, kegged and bottled on Monday. It was also fairly cloudy. The taste was herbal, spicy and dry with an assaulting aroma. The first full pour will be on Friday as well.

That's a really interesting comparison. Same FG on both. Cool.

 

[Psylocide]

That's a really interesting comparison. Same FG on both. Cool.

In a not-so-eerie coincidence, we brewed the same recipe (only difference was hop variety), his on his standard MT/BK system and I brewed it BIAB.

What was most surprising was that we targeted the same OG/FG and both beers ended up the EXACT same gravities... despite differences in crush, mash temp, mash length and fermentation temps.

Just... mind-blowing, really.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Oh right. He does his insane blender crush and I just had the LHBS run my 12 pounds through once. It was a good crush but surely not the powder-like crush Psylo gets. The colors are the only thing, aside from the hops that seems to be slightly different. They are both gorgeously pale.

It was my first time using Notty too, the first day was mildly terrifying. I took video of it blowing massive bubbles into the pitcher of starsan. An airlock wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

[dwhite60]

I've read this entire thread.

Anyone do the 45 minute mash with an appreciable percentage
of wheat malt?

Always heard to mash longer with wheat as it has less
enzymes.

All the Best,
D. White