3-wire single element wiring

[jcaudill]

Hello,

I've been poking around trying to find a wiring diagram based on 3-wire but all I ever seem to find is this diagram:

Is there one that has been adjusted for three-wire? All I'm trying to do is wire up a single 4500w element with an Auber PID controller. I'm not really interested in having the circuit changed to 4-wire.

Thanks in advance.

 

[P-J]

...
Is there one that has been adjusted for three-wire? All I'm trying to do is wire up a single 4500w element with an Auber PID controller. I'm not really interested in having the circuit changed to 4-wire.

Thanks in advance.

To fully power a 4500w element you will need a 240v power source. This can be done with a 3 wire system but then you also need power for the pump (120v). And, what about GFCI protection?

Please explain your situation.

 

[heckels]

Depending I how you're planning to handle your GFCI situation, many folks will get a spa panel from Home Depot and go in with 3 wires and come out with 4. Your GFCI protection is in the spa panel.

There are several threads on the forum covering that wiring specifically.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jcaudill]

To fully power a 4500w element you will need a 240v power source. This can be done with a 3 wire system but then you also need power for the pump (120v). And, what about GFCI protection?

Please explain your situation.

This is for a standalone HLT. The vessel will be a Polypropylene tank, with a 240v 4500watt element. Day before the brew I filter water and set the tank to mash-in temp and then the day of the brew I'm ready to go. I use propane on the rest of the stand so this is just a way of saving some time on brew day. So no worries about pumps or anything else other than the element. I have another control panel for that and don't want to muddle the situation.

Hopefully that helps explain things! Thanks so much.

 

[P-J]

This is for a standalone HLT. The vessel will be a Polypropylene tank, with a 240v 4500watt element. Day before the brew I filter water and set the tank to mash-in temp and then the day of the brew I'm ready to go. I use propane on the rest of the stand so this is just a way of saving some time on brew day. So no worries about pumps or anything else other than the element. I have another control panel for that and don't want to muddle the situation.

Hopefully that helps explain things! Thanks so much.

What is your power source - a dryer outlet? Also what about GFCI protection?

 

[jcaudill]

The power source is a 3-wire 240v NEMA 6-30 receptacle in my garage wired directly to the main panel. There currently is no GFCI protection. So I may need the aforementioned spa panel or I'll have to upgrade the breaker and change the receptacle.

 

[brew_ny]

The power source is a 3-wire 240v NEMA 6-30 receptacle in my garage wired directly to the main panel. There currently is no GFCI protection. So I may need the aforementioned spa panel or I'll have to upgrade the breaker and change the receptacle.

I found it was a lot cheaper to buy a spa panel then buy a breaker for my panel

all the best

S_M

 

[jcaudill]

Ok so - if I'm understanding correct: I have to go from my receptacle, to a spa panel and then I'm going to go into my PID/relay combo. Seems like a lot of extra hassle but if I have to do it I'll do it.

 

[brew_ny]

Ok so - if I'm understanding correct: I have to go from my receptacle, to a spa panel and then I'm going to go into my PID/relay combo. Seems like a lot of extra hassle but if I have to do it I'll do it.

you could do that

I am not sure what you have going on for wiring, if you can get to your wire you could put the spa panel before your outlet as a sub panel

you may find it easier to spend the money and buy a GFIC breaker and put it in your main panel

I am not sure what you feel comfortable with doing, I have run lots of power around my place

all the best with your project

S_M

 

[JustLooking]

In-line GFCI?

 

[jcaudill]

I actually just had a conversation with my electrician who installed the 240 circuit - and he does not think in my application there is any need for a GFI in the mix. Mainly this is because I'm dealing with a plastic vessel. The only metal is the element and the housing which will be grounded using the ground from the circuit. He said if water is to contact the element and cause a short it'll end up tripping the breaker.

So - I'm kind of back to where I started and that is how to wire this with 3-wire instead of 4. I know the Control Products controllers do 3-wire so if I have to I'll just go to that but since I have a relay in the mix I'd rather get an Auber. Please advise!

 

[augiedoggy]

Plastic boil kettle? How about the liquid itself? If its electrically charged anything conductive such as ball valves or metal spoons become charged..The Electrician is Right the breaker will trip but but it would happen so slowly compared to a ground fault protected circuit, that anyone in contact with it could get electrocuted

 

[jcaudill]

No not a boil kettle - just an HLT. It's for pre-warming water before brewday (I use propane otherwise but this will save me a lot of time on the day of the brew).

The housing for the element is metal - I will ground that. The ball valve is metal - I will have to figure out a way to ground that I suppose. The only other metal piece is the thermowell but I'm not as concerned there. Nothing will be touching the water otherwise

Actually I will probably just shutoff the power to the tank before I transfer it so I'm not sure the ball valve is even that big of a deal.

 

[vraftsman]

In-line GFCI?

Only rated for 20 amps, probably not enough for most resistance heater systems.

 

[augiedoggy]

Only rated for 20 amps, probably not enough for most resistance heater systems.

that's enough for a 4500 watt heater I edited my original post sorry didn't see that others have already posted

 

[jcaudill]

So I talked to Auber and the wiring diagram I was looking for is actually right in their instruction manual here: http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2342.pdf - 5.4.

If I'm reading this right, the heater is always going to get L1, and the relay will bring L2 when the PID calls for it. I am hoping someone can verify that the heater element won't produce any wattage without both sides powered - because when L1 comes to the element it is going to have 120v.

Also - can someone explain to me how the 1A fuse works? I'm not grasping how L1 won't pull more than 1A.

Thanks!

 

[lschiavo]

The (auber) PID can be powered by 240V. If you are not planning for any 120V in your setup, you do not need a neutral. L1 and L2 to your [EDIT *element*] and PID, ground to anything metal. A 2-pole GFCI will function. I have no idea where the 1A fuse feeding the PID came from. Per Auber, the PID is internally protected and requires no additional fusing. Fusing/circuit breakers protect the wire so make sure that is in order and you are good.

 

[jcaudill]

Ya I don't need 120v anywhere. This is all 240v. There are no pumps, switches, etc. etc. in my setup. I have a PID, element and SSR and that is the sum of the entire setup.

I'm glad someone else agrees that a 1A fuse is confusing. I certainly haven't figured that one out yet.

I still need to confirm though that the element won't heat off just one leg - it actually needs both I hope.

 

[jcaudill]

Ahh I think I know what the fuse is for now. I believe the 1A fuse is to protect the Auber PID. Though if I'm reading their diagram right, they have the position of L1 to the heater element after the fuse when in reality I believe it should be before the fuse.

 

[lschiavo]

Ya I don't need 120v anywhere. This is all 240v. There are no pumps, switches, etc. etc. in my setup. I have a PID, element and SSR and that is the sum of the entire setup.

I'm glad someone else agrees that a 1A fuse is confusing. I certainly haven't figured that one out yet.

I still need to confirm though that the element won't heat off just one leg - it actually needs both I hope.

The element needs both legs of 240V connected to make a circuit (assuming 240V). It will not produce any heat if they are not. Killing one leg will disable the element but there will still be 120V to ground at one terminal. A main switch or plug that disconnects both legs is a good idea for your safety.

 

[jcaudill]

When it's not in use I'll be turning the circuit off at the breaker. So I think all is well thanks!

 

[lschiavo]

Ahh I think I know what the fuse is for now. I believe the 1A fuse is to protect the Auber PID. Though if I'm reading their diagram right, they have the position of L1 to the heater element after the fuse when in reality I believe it should be before the fuse.

Figure 5.1 etc...is fusing the load to not exceed the PID relay rating. The PID itself is internally protected. I verified this once with Auber but 1A fuses powering PID's are in just about every build I see.