3 vessel eHERMS pre-build questions

[gerard weyns]

Been planning a 240v 30amp 3 vessel eHERMS for about a month now, but I need some input before I make any purchases. Some of my questions may seem stupid- I have no idea what I'm doing since I've never actually brewed beer before. Because of this I will gladly welcome any and all input! Well here it goes...
For the controller I'm looking to follow either Short Circuited Brewers instructions or the how to guide posted on here by MikeSkril. Both look simple yet effective and significantly less expensive than The Electric Brewery build. Haven't quite decided on which Auber PIDs I want to use yet so input on this would be great.
Planning on saving some money and building all 3 vessels with Bayou Classic 44qt SS stock pots unless someone can recommend a cheaper pot. Blichmann BoilCoils in the HLT and brew kettle. Making my own HERMS coil for the HLT, my own false bottom for the mash tun, as well as my own immersion chiller for the boil kettle. 2 March pumps for transferring/recirculating.
Ok I've covered the basics of my build heres my questions:

I shouldn't need to run both elements at the same time right? Some panels support 2+ simultaneously, but from what I understand I should only need to be able to support one at a time.

Why is it that a lot of systems have 3 PIDs when they are only running 2 elements?

Does the HLT need recirculation capabilities? In some of the videos I have watched I think I saw the HLT recirculating, but I'm not sure. If so what is the purpose of doing this? Better heat transfer to the HERMS coil maybe? Just wondering

Is a 44 qt pot the right size for the HLT, mash tun, and boil kettle if I want batches around 5-7 gallons?

Are there any limitations to this system that I should know about? What changes would you make? Any other input at all?

Thanks guys I'm really looking forward to getting this build rolling!

 

[shadowlord256]

I shouldn't need to run both elements at the same time right? Some panels support 2+ simultaneously, but from what I understand I should only need to be able to support one at a time.

You would only need to run both elements at the same time if you were planning to run back to back batches and wanted to heat your strike water while you were boiling the first batch. In order to do this you would need a 50 amp service instead of the 30 amp. For the system I am designing I am going to stick to 30 amp and if I want to run two batches back to back I will just plan on a longer brew day.

Why is it that a lot of systems have 3 PIDs when they are only running 2 elements?

The third PID is typically used to monitor the temperature of the wort in the mash tun and if you have alarms enabled it will allow you to receive a warning if your mash tun temp is off.

Does the HLT need recirculation capabilities? In some of the videos I have watched I think I saw the HLT recirculating, but I'm not sure. If so what is the purpose of doing this? Better heat transfer to the HERMS coil maybe? Just wondering

Recirculating will prevent temperature stratification in HLT. Without it the water will be hotter near the coil than it is at the top and it may make dialing in the temp of your mash tun more difficult. An alternative to recirculating would be to manually stir the water in the HLT.

Is a 44 qt pot the right size for the HLT, mash tun, and boil kettle if I want batches around 5-7 gallons?

I would think that size would be sufficient, except maybe for some really big beers. I use a keggle for my 10 gallon batches and have not run into any issues.

 

[TexasWine]

Been planning a 240v 30amp 3 vessel eHERMS for about a month now, but I need some input before I make any purchases. Some of my questions may seem stupid- I have no idea what I'm doing since I've never actually brewed beer before. Because of this I will gladly welcome any and all input! Well here it goes...
For the controller I'm looking to follow either Short Circuited Brewers instructions or the how to guide posted on here by MikeSkril. Both look simple yet effective and significantly less expensive than The Electric Brewery build. Haven't quite decided on which Auber PIDs I want to use yet so input on this would be great.
Planning on saving some money and building all 3 vessels with Bayou Classic 44qt SS stock pots unless someone can recommend a cheaper pot. Blichmann BoilCoils in the HLT and brew kettle. Making my own HERMS coil for the HLT, my own false bottom for the mash tun, as well as my own immersion chiller for the boil kettle. 2 March pumps for transferring/recirculating.
Ok I've covered the basics of my build heres my questions:

I shouldn't need to run both elements at the same time right? Some panels support 2+ simultaneously, but from what I understand I should only need to be able to support one at a time.

Why is it that a lot of systems have 3 PIDs when they are only running 2 elements?

Does the HLT need recirculation capabilities? In some of the videos I have watched I think I saw the HLT recirculating, but I'm not sure. If so what is the purpose of doing this? Better heat transfer to the HERMS coil maybe? Just wondering

Is a 44 qt pot the right size for the HLT, mash tun, and boil kettle if I want batches around 5-7 gallons?

Are there any limitations to this system that I should know about? What changes would you make? Any other input at all?

Thanks guys I'm really looking forward to getting this build rolling!

Honing in on your saving money comment here with some suggestions.

Go with a two vessel no sparge set up and upsize to the 62 (15.5 gallon) or 64 (16 gallon) quart Bayou Classic pots. 62 quart is selling for a tad over $100 right now on Amazon. Not only will this save you money on vessels, but also on fittings and other miscellaneous stuff.

Make your boil kettle pull double duty as your HLT. Cuts down on the numbers of elements you need to buy.

Use an external heat exchanger to exchange heat between the HLT and MT instead of putting a dedicated coil in the BK/HLT. This heat exchanger can also be used to chill the wort by swapping the water side from the HLT to your water hose or pumping ice water through it. This allows you to skip buying a separate wort chiller. And it also has the advantage of only needing enough water in the HLT to cover the heating element, making temp ramps very fast.

Skip the March pumps and get two of those Keg King MK II pumps. Cheaper, and very capable.

No need for Boil Coils in my opinion. Others will disagree. 4500 to 5500 watt wavy will be fine.

Don't make your own false bottom unless you own or work at a metal fabrication shop. They're relatively cheap for the effort you'd put into it.

Hope something here helps.

 

[gerard weyns]

Honing in on your saving money comment here with some suggestions.

Go with a two vessel no sparge set up and upsize to the 62 (15.5 gallon) or 64 (16 gallon) quart Bayou Classic pots. 62 quart is selling for a tad over $100 right now on Amazon. Not only will this save you money on vessels, but also on fittings and other miscellaneous stuff.

Make your boil kettle pull double duty as your HLT. Cuts down on the numbers of elements you need to buy.

Use an external heat exchanger to exchange heat between the HLT and MT instead of putting a dedicated coil in the BK/HLT. This heat exchanger can also be used to chill the wort by swapping the water side from the HLT to your water hose or pumping ice water through it. This allows you to skip buying a separate wort chiller. And it also has the advantage of only needing enough water in the HLT to cover the heating element, making temp ramps very fast.

Skip the March pumps and get two of those Keg King MK II pumps. Cheaper, and very capable.

No need for Boil Coils in my opinion. Others will disagree. 4500 to 5500 watt wavy will be fine.

Don't make your own false bottom unless you own or work at a metal fabrication shop. They're relatively cheap for the effort you'd put into it.

Hope something here helps.

I like the idea of going with two vessels to save some money while I'm getting started. Might be a little less convenient than having a dedicated HLT, but I can always add one down the road if I want. I would like my batches to stay in the 5-7 gallon range for quick consumption so that I can brew a new beer every few weeks. Are the 15 gallon pots still ideal for this smaller batch size?
With an external heat exchanger do you still pump from the mash tun through the HERMS coil submerged in the HLT or is it reversed?
Our main farm shop has more than the necessary fab equipment for this build I'm not worried about the fab side of it at all. In fact I'm considering getting a sheet of SS and building my own pots. Really wanting to get creative with it but unlike fabricating I have no experience with brewing beer. Really appreciating all of the input it's helping shape my build. Thank you shadowlord256 for clearing up those questions for me.

 

[TexasWine]

Are the 15 gallon pots still ideal for this smaller batch size?

With an external heat exchanger do you still pump from the mash tun through the HERMS coil submerged in the HLT or is it reversed?

1. Yes, because you'll be no sparge you start with all your water.
2. Not sure I did a good job explaining. There is no HERMs coil, only the heat exchanger which takes the place of the coil. On one side of the heat exchanger you pump water from the HLT/BK to the heat exchanger and back to the HLT/BK. On the other side you pump the wort from the MLT to the exchanger and back to the MLT. Your controller fires the element in the HLT just like a traditional HERMs to maintain and ramp temps.

When the mash is over, empty the water from the HLT/BK and pump your wort over to it in order to boil. Easy peasy.

 

[gerard weyns]

A little update I'm planning on sticking with a 3 vessel system. I'm sure that a 2 vessel system works just as well but I would rather save money by fabing my own kettles and sourcing the plumbing and SS fittings locally than move to two vessels. In order to satisfy my vision of this build its gonna have to be 3 vessels. Pretty much sticking to the original game plan. Ditching the BoilCoils for 2 5500 watt wavy elements. I think that I'm going to get an SS sheet big enough for 3 vessels and a conical fermentor. Never done any brewing but I think I have a good idea of what I'm going to do for my build and I'm looking forward to posting pictures on here for feedback. Before I get started ordering parts in the next couple weeks does anybody else have input on this build??

 

[Esmitee]

good luck with your build. looking forward to your system when completed !