3 questions regarding NEC (United States) / CSA (Canada) code differences

[NoCornOrRice]

Background:
In the USA, Spa Panels appear to be generally set to deliver 240volts only, yet the brewing control panels often use 120 volts anyways. Spa panels which are CSA listed (i.e. for Canada) have 120volt and 240 volts right in the panel and are at least triple the price.

Question 1:
If the USA control panels are using 120volts how is that up to code with a USA spa panel, when used in the US?

Question 2:
Can anyone provide insight into why CSA code requires Spa Panels be 120 and 240 volt when the NEC appears not to?

Question 3:
I have seen some diagrams requiring breakers when using a 50 amp Spa Panel, under which condtions is that a code requirement?

 

[hxcpunk71]

Question 3:
I have seen some diagrams requiring breakers when using a 50 amp Spa Panel, under which condtions is that a code requirement?[/QUOTE]

I don't think its code requirement to have a 50 amp breaker on every spa , its based on the amps the spa requires. 50 amp is just a standard for 120/240v spa. I hope that helps alittle.

 

[crypt0]

I'm curious about this too. I live in Canada as well, but bought a spa panel in the states ($70 vs $200), but realized after the fact this may not be up to CSA code.

If I could do it again I would have just bought either a GFCI breaker at the main panel in the house or built a GFCI into my control panel.

 

[yjfun]

The NEC doesn't require a specific spa panel or voltage for hot tub installation.

The requirements are that the power supply be gfci protected and that there must be a disconnecting means for that power supply within sight of the hot tub but not within reach of the tub when you're in it. A spa panel is designed to accomplish both of these things at the same time thereby decreasing the number of parts the installer has to purchase making the job cheaper.

Any of the standard spa panel packages that you are likely to buy (in the US) that have 240 volt power supplied to them also have 120 volt power available.

Most 240 volt hot tubs just use one leg of the supplied 240 power to run their 120 volt controls and so don't need a separate circuit.

I don't know if the CSA has any different installation requirements but I would think that it has to do more with luxury import taxes than actual code requirements.

 

[NoCornOrRice]

Thanks for the replies, I am starting to think it may be mainly a luxury tax that is accounting for the difference. I asked Home depot Canada why the cheapest Canadian sold panel was more than triple the price of the American one and if their were any differences between the panels. The home depot guy wasn't sure, but then when I went to an electrical parts shop, the manager said there was a difference in that the Canadian one could provide 120 and 240 with gfci profection, whereas the American one could only provide 120v and was therefore not up to Canadian standards. The whole distinction seems bogus to me - I mean, 240 is just 2 X 120, so I'm not understainding why there is a distinction.

 

[yjfun]

The guy gave you bogus answers about gfci protection. The spa panel itself isn't gfci protected unless the breaker in the main panel feeding it is a gfci breaker. If you want gfci protection on both 120 and 240 volt circuits coming from the gfci panel then put in a single pole and a double pole gfci breaker. Most of these panels are basic 3R 100 amp 250 volt single phase 4 space panels that you can buy off of any electrical suppliers shelf and a gfci breaker in whatever ampacity and voltage you want. If you want gfci protection for your pump and controls then put in a 20 amp 120 volt gfci breaker.

It really sounds like you guys in the great white north just need to buy the parts separate and build your own spa panels for what they want to charge you.

 

[SimBrew]

I'm in canada and a have a bit of electrical knowledge, gfci protection mesure current going in the ground wire, it doesn't matter from witch 120v side of the 240v it come, it will trip if one or both of the 120v pole are leaking to the ground.

As i see it, CSA want let you install a brewery without a CSA approuved GFCI breaker. But as a hobby, as long as your breaker is not at all time feeded by the main panel ex: mounted on the brew rigg and plugged as needed, you should be ok cause it's not really part of your house electrical system.

Has a brewer, you need one to save your life, the NEC or CSA should do that job.

People add breaker to the spa panel cause you need to protect the rest of your rigg with proper size breaker in regards of the size of the wire of your rigg.

Ex: if you put 50A breaker in your house panel to feed the spa panel, wire must be 6 awg or bigger, if you feed a 23A 5500w element from your spa panel, 10awg is enough but you need a 30A breaker to protect the 10AWG, before the 50A trip for an overload of the 10AWG, it will get your house on fire. So you use smaller breaker to use smaller wire, 6awg to your element would really suck.

And remember, you need one GFCI protection, you shouldn't wire several on the same circuit.