2nd BIAB attempt-Process review

[emr454]

So now that I've settled into my own house and have room (and time) to brew again, I'm going to attempt a 2nd BIAB recipe this weekend. Here are the specs:

BIAB Wheat Ale
3lb 2 row
2 lb wheat malt

0.5 oz crushed coriander @ 10 min

0.5 oz US Hallertau @ 60 min

1/2 pack of S-04 yeast

Batch size: 2.5 gal
Boil size: 3 gal
Boil time: 60 min

Estimated OG: 1.057
Estimated FG: 1.014
Estimated ABV: 5.5%

Strike water: 2.5 gal
Strike temp: 162F

The plan is to do BIAB in an enamel canning pot (4 gal) on my stovetop but I'm not sure of the mash thickness. I've read 1.3qt/lb is a good ratio, but the priceless BIAB calc shows 2qt/lb for this size recipe with 1 gal of sparge volume.

I'm mostly looking for feedback on mash thickness and sparge volume and I can figure strike temp from there.

Anything else look out of place? I really appreciate any feedback/tips.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

So now that I've settled into my own house and have room (and time) to brew again, I'm going to attempt a 2nd BIAB recipe this weekend. Here are the specs:

BIAB Wheat Ale
3lb 2 row
2 lb wheat malt

0.5 oz crushed coriander @ 10 min

0.5 oz US Hallertau @ 60 min

1/2 pack of S-04 yeast

Batch size: 2.5 gal
Boil size: 3 gal
Boil time: 60 min

Estimated OG: 1.057
Estimated FG: 1.014
Estimated ABV: 5.5%

Strike water: 2.5 gal
Strike temp: 162F

The plan is to do BIAB in an enamel canning pot (4 gal) on my stovetop but I'm not sure of the mash thickness. I've read 1.3qt/lb is a good ratio, but the priceless BIAB calc shows 2qt/lb for this size recipe with 1 gal of sparge volume.

I'm mostly looking for feedback on mash thickness and sparge volume and I can figure strike temp from there.

Anything else look out of place? I really appreciate any feedback/tips.

throw everything you know about mash thickness out the window when you're thinking about biab. If you're super worried about the ph then you can either change your water volume, or adjust the water chemistry (this is better)

 

[pdog44450]

So now that I've settled into my own house and have room (and time) to brew again, I'm going to attempt a 2nd BIAB recipe this weekend. Here are the specs:

BIAB Wheat Ale
3lb 2 row
2 lb wheat malt

0.5 oz crushed coriander @ 10 min

0.5 oz US Hallertau @ 60 min

1/2 pack of S-04 yeast

Batch size: 2.5 gal
Boil size: 3 gal
Boil time: 60 min

Estimated OG: 1.057
Estimated FG: 1.014
Estimated ABV: 5.5%

Strike water: 2.5 gal
Strike temp: 162F

The plan is to do BIAB in an enamel canning pot (4 gal) on my stovetop but I'm not sure of the mash thickness. I've read 1.3qt/lb is a good ratio, but the priceless BIAB calc shows 2qt/lb for this size recipe with 1 gal of sparge volume.

I'm mostly looking for feedback on mash thickness and sparge volume and I can figure strike temp from there.

Anything else look out of place? I really appreciate any feedback/tips.

I mash 1.25-1.35qt/lb ratio. Then I have about 14qts of sparge water depending on the weight of the grain bill.

If you want a 2.5 gallon batch size you will need to raise your pre-boil volume to around 3.5 gallons instead of 3. You have to take trub loss and shrinkage. I do 2.35 gallon batches and my pre-boil is 3.45 gallons.

163 strike water for a 152 mash.

 

[emr454]

throw everything you know about mash thickness out the window when you're thinking about biab. If you're super worried about the ph then you can either change your water volume, or adjust the water chemistry (this is better)

I hadn't considered pH issues, mainly want to make sure I have the proper water to grain ratio and enough grain for this size batch.

 

[emr454]

I mash 1.25-1.35qt/lb ratio. Then I have about 14qts of sparge water depending on the weight of the grain bill.

If you want a 2.5 gallon batch size you will need to raise your pre-boil volume to around 3.5 gallons instead of 3. You have to take trub loss and shrinkage. I do 2.35 gallon batches and my pre-boil is 3.45 gallons.

163 strike water for a 152 mash.

So 1.35qt/lb at 5 lb of grain would give me 6.75 qts of strike water (1.6 gal) and I would need another 2 gallons of sparge water to get my volume.

 

[madscientist451]

I do small batches and started with BIAB in a pot, but I had problems with maintaining mash temperature, so for $20 I got a 5 gallon round cooler from Walmart and put my BIAB bag in there. I eventually added a valve and it makes everything much easier.
Is the 4 gallon canning pot the brew kettle? You will probably have to settle for 2 gallons of finished beer because your boil volume will max out at 3.5 gallons, minus 1 gallon during evaporation, minus 1/2 gallon for kettle trub and fermenter loss.

 

[JPicasso]

Well, we don't KNOW what his boil off rate is. Maybe it is only 1/2 gallon? Someone posted just recently about boiloff being almost solely dependent on kettle opening.
Personally, I would lean toward 3.25 or so pre-boil in case my boiloff was more than the half gallon I planned on.
As for other volumes, mash with as much water as you can, you can top up after you remove the bag, before the boil to try and get the volume up to where you want.

Happy brewing!

 

[emr454]

I do small batches and started with BIAB in a pot, but I had problems with maintaining mash temperature, so for $20 I got a 5 gallon round cooler from Walmart and put my BIAB bag in there. I eventually added a valve and it makes everything much easier.
Is the 4 gallon canning pot the brew kettle? You will probably have to settle for 2 gallons of finished beer because your boil volume will max out at 3.5 gallons, minus 1 gallon during evaporation, minus 1/2 gallon for kettle trub and fermenter loss.

Yes, I plan on using the canning pot as my mash tun and brew kettle. The plan is to insulate it with towels/blankets once I dough in and get a stable mash temp. If it starts to drop I can remove the insulation and turn on the burner for a minute or two to maintain temps.

 

[BigJack]

I think a bigger pot to allow full volume mashing is in order.

 

[emr454]

I may be able to get ahold of a bigger pot if I need to.

This is turning out to be more complicated than my research led me to believe...

 

[JPicasso]

It's not that complicated. But many of us like to over-complicate things. (self included)
Really, if you know where you want your end boil level to be on that canning pot, use as much water as you can to mash, boil for 50 minutes, and when you add your corriander, do a sanity check on the level.
If it's too far down, ADD WATER. (heresy, for sure )

Boil for 10 minutes to kill any bugs, and dump your delicious wort into the fermenter after it's cooled.

 

[madscientist451]

Yes, I plan on using the canning pot as my mash tun and brew kettle. The plan is to insulate it with towels/blankets once I dough in and get a stable mash temp. If it starts to drop I can remove the insulation and turn on the burner for a minute or two to maintain temps.

I had a similar plan as yours. I got tired of temperature swings and overshooting the mash temp when I used a burner to add heat. So I got a small cooler, not expensive and just makes brewing easier. But lots of people mash right in the pot so you can do that if you want.
I would also suggest a bigger pot. 20 quart (5) gallon at least. But for now, I'd go ahead and use what you have, you can always upgrade later if you want to.

 

[emr454]

Good news! My father has an aluminum turkey fryer pot that I can use. Unsure of the size but I would guess its at least 5 gallons. All I need to boil is boil some water in it to create the protective layer inside and it'll be good to go. Now I can do a full volume mash, as long as my stove will handle a boil that size.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

The smallest turkey fryer pot I've seen is 7.5 gallon. Just an FYI.

 

[jekeane]

I have done two 3.25 gallon no sparge in a 7.5 gallon pot. I used the biabacus spreadsheet. It took a bit of fooling with to understand it but both of my batches were spot on the numbers. A lot of turkey pots are taller than an oven but if you can find a wider pot that will fit in the oven (set to warm) you wont have to worry about insulation.

 

[doug293cz]

I hadn't considered pH issues, mainly want to make sure I have the proper water to grain ratio and enough grain for this size batch.

There is no such thing as "proper water to grain ratio" when talking about BIAB or 3 vessel batch sparge. Proper water to grain ratio should only be discussed in relation to fly sparging, or multiple infusion mashes. BIAB'ers can use up to the full volume of water required for the batch in their mash. Three vessel batch spargers should adjust their strike water volumes to force equal volumes for initial and sparge run offs.

The idea that a specific, low water/grain ratio in the mash is needed for good efficiency has been debunked by Kai (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness)

Brew on

 

[pdog44450]

So 1.35qt/lb at 5 lb of grain would give me 6.75 qts of strike water (1.6 gal) and I would need another 2 gallons of sparge water to get my volume.

Yep, sounds almost exactly like mine would be with a 5 pound grain bill. I dunk for 10 minutes, then pour sparge the remaining. Not necessary but it's just the way I've always done it.

 

[brew703]

One of the posters in this thread said he had problems maintaining mash temps and he bought a cooler. Doesnt that get away from BIAB? Adding his wort to the cooler is considered sparging right?
Once you get your water to strike temps and the grain is added, if the temps get below your mash temp, why would't you just turn on the heat and get back up to mash temps? I'm going to be doing my first BIAB this weekend and that's what my plan is if my mash temps fall below 153.

 

[doug293cz]

One of the posters in this thread said he had problems maintaining mash temps and he bought a cooler. Doesnt that get away from BIAB? Adding his wort to the cooler is considered sparging right?
Once you get your water to strike temps and the grain is added, if the temps get below your mash temp, why would't you just turn on the heat and get back up to mash temps? I'm going to be doing my first BIAB this weekend and that's what my plan is if my mash temps fall below 153.

Yeah, if you put the bag in a cooler, it's not really BIAB anymore, but so what? There are lots of ways to mash & lauter that work well. Which one to use usually comes down to personal preference. (This from a die hard BIAB'er.)

Brew on

 

[pricelessbrewing]

One of the posters in this thread said he had problems maintaining mash temps and he bought a cooler. Doesnt that get away from BIAB? Adding his wort to the cooler is considered sparging right?
Once you get your water to strike temps and the grain is added, if the temps get below your mash temp, why would't you just turn on the heat and get back up to mash temps? I'm going to be doing my first BIAB this weekend and that's what my plan is if my mash temps fall below 153.

In my opinion the definitive aspect of BIAB is the B part, ie filtering via a bag*. Be it in a cooler, a pot, a bucket, or a hat, doesn't matter to me. Full volume, or sparging, even filtering via a bag and fly sparging and vorlaufing it's still BIAB to me! That's why it's called "brew in a bag" and not "full volume mash, but don't recirculate, sparge, varlouf, or use two vessels, in a bag..."

While I don't think it's necessary, or serves any purpose if you want to mash in a bag and cooler, or bucket, or recirculate your wort and sparge slowly over the course of an hour you're more then welcome to give it a shot.

*This is the main difference between a lot of BIABers on here, vs biabrewer.info forums.

Just make sure that if you find out you're under the targeted mash temp, you first stir a bit to remove temp stratification. Then, and only then, if you really need to heat it up some you do the following: remove any insulation, stir continuously, apply low heat, and ideally move the bag around to avoid two things: burning the bag, and scorching the grains.

I've found that as long as I dough in well, and use a bit of insulation via blankets/towels I have laying about the house, I only lose about 2-3 degrees over an hour which I'm happy with.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

In my opinion the definitive aspect of BIAB is the B part, ie filtering via a bag*. Be it in a cooler, a pot, a bucket, or a hat, doesn't matter to me. Full volume, or sparging, even filtering via a bag and fly sparging and vorlaufing it's still BIAB to me! That's why it's called "brew in a bag" and not "full volume mash, but don't recirculate, sparge, varlouf, or use two vessels, in a bag..."



While I don't think it's necessary, or serves any purpose if you want to mash in a bag and cooler, or bucket, or recirculate your wort and sparge slowly over the course of an hour you're more then welcome to give it a shot.



*This is the main difference between a lot of BIABers on here, vs biabrewer.info forums.



Just make sure that if you find out you're under the targeted mash temp, you first stir a bit to remove temp stratification. Then, and only then, if you really need to heat it up some you do the following: remove any insulation, stir continuously, apply low heat, and ideally move the bag around to avoid two things: burning the bag, and scorching the grains.



I've found that as long as I dough in well, and use a bit of insulation via blankets/towels I have laying about the house, I only lose about 2-3 degrees over an hour which I'm happy with.

Agree with everything here! BIAB to me is really just "mashing in a bag." How you do the rest is up to you. Some people equate BIAB with full volume mash, but there are tons of ways to do it. I mash in a bag placed in a 5 gal round cooler (typically between 10-12.5 lbs of grain), at around a 1.25-1.5 qt/lb mash thickness. Squeeze the bag after 60 mins, empty liquid into my kettle, and repeat back inside the cooler (a dunk/batch-sparge of sorts), with the remaining pre-boil volume needed for 10-15 mins (stirring well a couple times during each step). Essentially a 2-step process. It may take some playing around with at first, but I've found when I preheat the cooler, get the right strike water temp based on the amount and temp of grain (there's several calculators out there to assist), that it holds a 60 min mash at a steady temp very well with only maybe 1-2 deg drop over an hour, with no need to add heat, and very good efficiency (75-80%).

Anyways, that's my basic process that works well for me. There's definitely more than one way to do it.

 

[brew703]

In my opinion the definitive aspect of BIAB is the B part, ie filtering via a bag*. Be it in a cooler, a pot, a bucket, or a hat, doesn't matter to me. Full volume, or sparging, even filtering via a bag and fly sparging and vorlaufing it's still BIAB to me! That's why it's called "brew in a bag" and not "full volume mash, but don't recirculate, sparge, varlouf, or use two vessels, in a bag..."

While I don't think it's necessary, or serves any purpose if you want to mash in a bag and cooler, or bucket, or recirculate your wort and sparge slowly over the course of an hour you're more then welcome to give it a shot.

*This is the main difference between a lot of BIABers on here, vs biabrewer.info forums.

Just make sure that if you find out you're under the targeted mash temp, you first stir a bit to remove temp stratification. Then, and only then, if you really need to heat it up some you do the following: remove any insulation, stir continuously, apply low heat, and ideally move the bag around to avoid two things: burning the bag, and scorching the grains.

I've found that as long as I dough in well, and use a bit of insulation via blankets/towels I have laying about the house, I only lose about 2-3 degrees over an hour which I'm happy with.

Thanks for the reply. SO a 2-3 drop in temp is ok over the course of 60 min without adding heat?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Yeah honestly I don't worry about it anymore.

 

[SanPancho]

A)do a full volume mash for simplicity, just double grind grains to make up for loss of efficiency you get from sparging. easy.
or
B) do a 2.5ish gallon mash, double grind, with a 1 gallon dunk sparge on the side burner for some extra efficiency. still pretty easy. (this is what i do)

minimize temp drop by putting your oven on its lowest temp (often 150 or 200F) and then putting your mash into the oven to stay warm. if your oven goes down to 150F you're golden,if 200 then warm it up and turn it off when you start to mash so it cools a bit.

as for water quality, put all the mash and sparge water into kettle, adjust as directed by your software, and then pull off 1 gallon for sparging if you plan on going that route. (again, what i do for simplicity)

and most of all, dont worry about thick/light mash ratios for BIAB. its not relevant as you're not doing traditional sparge/lauter. just do whatever is easiest and acceptable to you in terms of time/money/efficiency.

boiled off too much? well all your sugars are still in the pot. so just adjust the volume back to where it should be with some distilled/RO water from grocery store. (it should put your OG back on target-- if your calcs were right)

i'm in process of doing a TON of recipe creation at moment, and so i've dropped down to 1 gallon batches. BIAB is the only way i can be brewing once or twice a day, few times a week and still have a normal life. and not be stuck drinking gallons and gallons of beer constantly.

and one last note as you're doing fairly small batches- take a look at the anova sous vide units. small, precise at temp control, recirculates water around kettle, i absolutely love it with BIAB. makes a great sous vide steak too. about $150 or so, but worth every penny in my opinion.

 

[emr454]

Aaaand we're mashing

20 minutes in and still holding 153 (I overshot by one degree, oh well)

Mental note: get a bigger bag next time, it's hard to stir the grains in a bag thats smaller than the mash tun

 

[emr454]

So after a 75 minute mash and a pseudo "mash-out" my pre boil gravity was 1.020 at 149F.

Using this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/ I get a corrected reading of 1.038 for my pre-boil gravity.

Using this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/ I get a reading of just under 75% efficiency.

Does this seem correct to you folks? I'm pretty stoked so far!

 

[emr454]

My OG came out to 1.048 and Brewgr estimated 1.049 so not too shabby. I gotta figure out a better way to chill my wort though. The "ice bath in the sink" shuffle is a PITA.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

[QUoOTEGhoulish]I think a bigger pot to allow full volume mashing is in order.

[/QUOTE]

try that again man, you're other post is all garbled.
A cheap diy wort chiller is effective, and costs about $45. ymmv.

Alternatively look at no chill, works really well the couple times I've tried it although I've heard that it can be difficult to adjust hoppy flavor/ aroma additions 30 min or less.

 

[emr454]

A cheap diy wort chiller is effective, and costs about $45. ymmv.

Alternatively look at no chill, works really well the couple times I've tried it although I've heard that it can be difficult to adjust hoppy flavor/ aroma additions 30 min or less.

Heh, the funny this is I have a DIY copper immersion chiller but from living at our previous residence with hard sulfur water, it has a nice black "patina" on it and I don't know what it would do to wort.

No chill is something I may investigate in the future for sure.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Heh, the funny this is I have a DIY copper immersion chiller but from living at our previous residence with hard sulfur water, it has a nice black "patina" on it and I don't know what it would do to wort.

No chill is something I may investigate in the future for sure.

nothing a good acid soak, like starsan, wouldn't fix.

 

[emr454]

Good deal! I'll try that out this week

 

[TheMadKing]

I may be able to get ahold of a bigger pot if I need to.

This is turning out to be more complicated than my research led me to believe...

Its not! Don't worry!

I did the same thing for my second BIAB run and it worked great. I did a half volume mash and a dunk sparge with the bag. You can control mash temps on the stove if you watch it closely, and keep in mind that an electric range has a lot of temp drift, so shut the heat off before you hit your target temp and it will keep going up for several minutes.

I lifted my bag out when my mash was done and poured my wort into a bucket, then dumped a second pot of water over the grains (inside the bag) and let it sit for 15 minutes or so, pulled the bag out, squeezed it, then dumped my first runnings right back into my boil pot and I was off and running!

Super easy.

 

[z-bob]

I've been brewing 4 gallon batches on the kitchen stove, using two 5 gallon canners. Mash with about 2.5 gallons of water, sparge in the other pot with 2 gallons of water, combine them and boil. The high-output burner on the kitchen stove was just enough heat to boil that much wort.

My last batch, I changed everything and it was somewhat easier. I put a little less than 4 gallons of water (didn't really measure it) in the kettle, added the grain, then added more hot water to fill the kettle to the top for the mash. It was a lot easier to maintain the temperature for an hour with the extra volume. Then I pulled the bag out, squeezed the heck out of it, and I didn't sparge. The overall efficiency seemed about the same.

Then I boiled it outside on my new turkey fryer burner, so I didn't steam up the house.

I need to get a 7.5 gallon pot so I can do full 5 gallon batches. But no hurry because 4 gallons is a good batch size too, and I have 4 gallon carboys...

ETA: TheMadKing and I must have been typing at the same time. His process is almost identical to how I was doing it until I went full-volume mash. He used a bucket, I used a second canner.

 

[emr454]

Thanks for the insight!

I ended up with just over 4 gallons of strike water, boil was about 3.5ish gallons at the start, and I have just under 3 gallons in the carboy so I expect to end up with right around 2.5 gallons of finished beer as long as I don't take too many hydrometer samples