2nd batch low OG

[cwendel]

After a successful 1st batch (Scottish Ale, extract w/ 1.25lbs specialty grains), I finally got around to brewing my second batch this evening:

Coffee Stout
3.3 lbs DME
1 lb Coffee malt
2 lbs flaked barley
1 lb black barley

2 oz. Fuggle Pellets (4.5% Alpha Acids)
WL Irish Ale yeast

Brew went okay w/ only a few minor upsets, but nothing catastrophic, but the final gravity I obtained was 1.036, which surprised me due to the difference from my first batch (OG 1.58).

So, a couple questions...
1) is this OG low? I would love to learn how to due calculations, but do not have that knowledge yet. If someone can point me in the direction of a learner thread and/or free (preferably) software to play with, I can maybe figure this out myself!

2) Do ya'll see any issues w/ the recipe? After getting home with it and reading Palmer sections again, it seems to me that it might be too much flaked barley and black barley.

Would be happy to explain any more of the process I did while it's still fresh in my mind, and happy for any other thoughts!

 

[Shaneoco1981]

I am assuming this is for 5 gallons? If so, then that looks about right. Without a conversion agent, the specialty grain (coffee malt, flaked barley, and black barley) will only add flavor, not anymore sugar. The lack the enzymes to convert their starches to sugars. That is why when you make the jump to all grain brewing, all recipes have a base malt that is at a minimum, 75% of the recipe. (That is a estimation as every recipe is different). But that base malt is what holds a) a good amount of starches that are converted into sugars and b) the enzymes that actually do the conversion. So the only thing in your recipe that is actually sugar is the 3.3 lbs of DME. for 5 gallons, that is low. I just plugged it into Beersmith, which is the software I use, and it gave me an estimated OG of 1.029. Beersmith is not free, but it is WELL worth the money. Just my thoughts.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

plugging this into a 5 gallon batch with beer smith software gives me an estimated OG of 10.32. Also don't expect specialy grains to add gravity points (in the form of fermentable sugars), especially if you re just steeping them. How big was your batch? Also when was the last time you calibrated your hydrometer? Are you sure it is accurate?

 

[cwendel]

Thanks for the replies!

It was for a 5 gallon batch, so w/ calcs reporting 1.029 or 1.032, I feel like I'm close to on track (I am not sure where the 5 gallon line is on the carboy, but I could probably top it off with another 2-3 cups of liquid).

I did not know that the specialty grains did not have the enzymes... The guy at the homebrew shop who helped me convert this recipe for me from an all grain simply replaced the base malt with the DME.

With that said, is there anything I can/should do to up the gravity, or is this batch in trouble?

 

[BigBlueDog]

Brewtarget is a free, open source brewing software program. For an online resource you could check out beercalculous at hopville.com.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

you could do a very small volume, highly concentrated boil and add that to you fermentor. You could also add simple sugar, honey or other fermntables. I'd just leave it, have have yorself a nice low achohol session beer. if you drop off at 10.12 you'd have about 3.2% ABV

 

[cwendel]

I like that idea too, JoshuaWhite.

To follow up, does extract (DME or LME) have enzymes? Should I have had the DME in the kettle when I carefully kept it at 152F for 45 minutes expecting to extract some sugars???

Are there options for extracting sugars from extract grains without mashing a base malt (i.e. extract brewing)?

 

[Shaneoco1981]

There is not much you can do. You could boil a few cups of water with another 3 lbs or so of DME, cool, and then throw that in there, but I also think that you have beer now. It will be a very dark session beer. The guy at your LHBS should have known better. That is very odd. 3.3 lbs of DME? How much base malt did the original recipe call for?

 

[Shaneoco1981]

No, extract does not have any enzymes. It would not have made a difference. Sorry.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

I like that idea too, JoshuaWhite.

Are there options for extracting sugars from extract grains without mashing a base malt (i.e. extract brewing)?

i think you are a little confuced here, extracts are the sugars from already mashed grains with all the water taken out. If you are talking about specialty grains and geting fermentable from them that won't happen to any great degree either since the kilning process renders them less fermenable. Crystal malts and such can contribute higher chained sugars that beer yeast just can metabolize

 

[cwendel]

Ah, that was what I was worried about because now I'm going to really have to be on my game before I head into that store! I do not have the original amount of base malt, but I think he did a conversion of something like 65% of the base malt by weight...so maybe about 5lbs?

Is there a good way to convert all grain recipes to extract and convert sugars from specialty grains? I feel sort of equipment limited to do all grain, but would like to keep playing around with specialty grains.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

I'd just look for extract recipes and save yourself the trouble. *********** has an abundance of them.

 

[cwendel]

i think you are a little confuced here, extracts are the sugars from already mashed grains with all the water taken out. If you are talking about specialty grains and geting fermentable from them that won't happen to any great degree either since the kilning process renders them less fermenable. Crystal malts and such can contribute higher chained sugars that beer yeast just can metabolize

Yes, sorry, I meant specialty grains, long day... I still may be confused though. If I were to mash the same specialty grains with a base malt (rather than specialty grains "mashed" alone and then adding DME for the boil), would I have achieved a higher OG?

I suspect not because, as you said, the specialty grains are rendered less fermentable by the kilning process... So, was this just a poorly designed recipe?

I really appreciate all of the help from you guys!

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

You might see a small increase in the OG, but not the FG. Again, this goes back to the less fermentabiliy of what would be extracted. Don't look to specality grains as a means of adjusting an OG.

 

[Shaneoco1981]

You do gain some, but Josh is right. Specialty malts are there mainly for color and taste. ABV mostly comes from your base grain or extract.

 

[cwendel]

okay, that makes sense, thanks! So by the 1lb DME = ~1% ABV "rule", I should have expected that this recipe would produce about a 3.3% beer?

 

[Shaneoco1981]

Yea, you are looking at a nice session stout.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

I've never heard of that rule, but but bear in mind that amount of water you are adding your DME to will be a factor as well. 4 gallons of water would have had a higher OG and therefor higher ABV, the reverse for a 6 gallon batch........

 

[cwendel]

Yes, I just saw that in another thread about a low OG issue, and the correlation was stated for a 5 gallon batch. I appreciate all of the help you two! signing off...

 

[Xier]

There are ways to get fermentables out of specialty grains, but I do not know how keen you would be to try them!

 

[cwendel]

Hi all,
I'm the OP for this thread and finally got around to playing around with beer calculus on all of my other recipes. For the recipe in the first post, I calculated an OG of 1.047 using beer calculus, where others in this thread had calculated ~1.030 using beer smith. Am I doing something wrong? Or is there a significant difference between the two calculation tools?

From beer calculus, with just the extract (3lbs 5oz of dark dry malt extract) I get an OG of 1.030, but then a lot of gravity is attributed to the partial mash grains... Any help would be appreciated!

My measured OG was 1.036 and FG was 1.012 after about 2 weeks.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

well I plugged it in to hopville as well can came up with 1.042. I don't feel that this calculator is all the spot on, changing boil times didn't affect the gravity in any way. I couldn't find a way to tell it that you are doing a extract. I couldn't adjust a boil off rate. I'd try a program a little more proven if you are going to be serious about building recipies.

Beersmith only made an adjustment of .004 (as opposed to .013 that hopville gave) when I removed the speciality grains, I think that the hopville calculator is assuming that you are doing an all grain maybe? I'm not sure but it doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[iceemone]

+1 for beercalculus.hopville.com. Play around with it and you can see that the low OG is due to the low amount of fermentables, sugar (LME, DME)