20g Stout/Kal Build and Bar

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orangehero said:
I think you get what you pay for actually. These are made in china and far from flawless. To get something like this made in the states would not even be realistic. When you know it's a gamble, I think people would gladly pay to upgrade in order to avoid the huge hassle of bad tanks.
Click to expand...

I agree. Stout Tanks are a great deal for the money. They are a premium price vs plastic. They are a very discounted price for Stainless Steel. That said. Their stuff works well.
 
I agree about the Stout Tanks. I just got my HLT after 6 months of waiting. I was backordered about three months when I ordered it. I had to make several calls to see where it was, only to find out it was further backrordered. When it did finally make it state side from China, it got shipped to somebody else so I had to wait another three weeks and make several more calls.
My HERMS coil doesn't line up with the fittings on the kettle. When I called about this, I was told everything is custom so there isn't anything they can do about it. They recommended I take to a local metal worker to have it re-bent, work which they'll pay for.
 
I should have my HERMS coil by Friday. The plan right now is to put the final parts on Friday, auto tune on Saturday, drive to Tucson and buy grain on Sunday, and hopefully brew on Monday.

I calibrated and applied my sight glass stickers (thanks Bobby). I also built a hose rack and bolted it to the wall.

So close...
 
Coil arrived yesterday. For those who aren't up to speed on this, Stout ships their HLTs with small, short HERMS coils (3/8" x 25' I think). I opted to order my tanks with the fittings but with no coil. Zach from stainlessbrewing.com built a 1/2" x 50' coil with tri clamp ends that drops into place. Here it is.

img_20140826_155422-63656.jpg


The coil fits perfect. If you have stout tanks and are unhappy with your coil or are thinking about getting stout tanks, I highly recommend it. It isn't listed on his site so I contacted him via email to order it.

I also put most of the fittings on the pumps and chiller. I need just a couple more parts.

img_20140826_155554-63657.jpg


Probably going to brew this weekend. I bought 100 pounds of grain on Sunday to have on standby. I also got 6 15 gallon plastic barrels for fermenters. This build seemed to take forever but I am getting close now.
 
Just finished my second brew day with the new rig. The first day went long, about 9 hours. I had a bunch of hiccups but nothing tragic. The session today took about 7 1/2 hours but I spent an hour of that calibrating the rtds which I shouldn't have to do again for a while. In case anyone views this for ideas, here are things I learned and would do the same or different in building the rig.

I would definitely do the stout tanks again. Despite the wait and some minor complaints, they are nice. Tri clamps are easy to clean and I like being able to hook anything up together instead of trying to match fittings

I love my coil from stainlessbrewing. I never tried the stock stout coil but this thing works and fits perfect. No problems with heat exchange at all.

Clean up is a ton easier with a shopvac. I use it to suck up grain and any standing water in the tanks. I use it to blow out the filter and plate chiller so I can disassemble them with out dripping any remaining wort before I clean them. A shop vac hose fits perfectly in the gasket groove of a 1.5" tri clamp.

Trub filter works good. I free range my hops in the kettle without bags now.

Kals control panel is great as expected. I wish I had gone with a 50amp just to keep my options open but that probably isn't needed. I added a fourth rtd that sits in a tee on the output side of the plate chiller. This works great. I just swing the panel so I can see it and sit in front of the valve in a chair to dial in the cooling temperature. I should have added a fourth pic for this but for now I just unplug the mlt probe and plug in the spare rtd. You could just move the mlt probe each time, but this way I didn't have to muck with how the wires are routed.

I need more hoses. I have enough to brew but it would be handy to have a few more of varying lengths to minimize clutter when things are hooked up.

If it weren't wrong on so many levels, I would probably make sweet sweet love to my plate chiller. This thing is incredible. I stopped using a pretty chiller, my tap water is hot during the summer, and instead I put 40 pounds of ice in the mlt and fill with water and pump from that. I keep the wort pump valve full open and keep the water pump valve about half to get wort out at 62. Its pretty fast.

I bought way too many clamps. I ended up needing just a few more than what end up coming with the tanks but ordered about 20. On the plus side, I never have to look for a clamp.

Bottom drain HLT makes cleanup much easier, this should be a standard feature for stout.

If anyone is building something similar and has questions feel free to ask.
 
sandyeggoxj said:
Those have some on pretty much every triclamp fitting I have bought from brewershardware or brewhardware. I ususally just toss them in the trash. I should have been saving them for you, eh?
Click to expand...

Ha! One man's trash...

That's where mine came from. I wish I had more they are handy little dustcaps. I have this nightmare of a packrat making a home in an instrument tee.

They are called flange protectors if you want to try to find them but all I have found of those style come in 500 packs.
 
How does the price of the 3 tanks compare to Stout's regular price on those? What you ordered from him is pretty much exactly what I would want to order...
 
luke_l said:
How does the price of the 3 tanks compare to Stout's regular price on those? What you ordered from him is pretty much exactly what I would want to order...
Click to expand...

The stock tanks would run $1824. With my customizations and the coil from stainlessbrewing.com it is $1979. So its $155 extra to get my configuration

I don't remember the exact numbers but I think the price taken off for removing the coil was either the same or maybe even more than the cost of the larger coil from Zach. I think most of the increase comes from making the HLT bottom drain.

I think it was worth it.
 
olse0230 said:
I agree about the Stout Tanks. I just got my HLT after 6 months of waiting. I was backordered about three months when I ordered it. I had to make several calls to see where it was, only to find out it was further backrordered. When it did finally make it state side from China, it got shipped to somebody else so I had to wait another three weeks and make several more calls.
My HERMS coil doesn't line up with the fittings on the kettle. When I called about this, I was told everything is custom so there isn't anything they can do about it. They recommended I take to a local metal worker to have it re-bent, work which they'll pay for.
Click to expand...
What is the herms coil made of that it wont bend /reform easily with say an $8 pipe bender from the hardware or autostore?
unless its made of some kind of hardened steel that doesnt bend easily this would be the most practical choice.
Dont you think its a bit unrealistic to expect both ends of a metal coil to line up exactly unless you actually sent them the coil to dryfit during manufacturing?
 
Could you take a picture of the bottom drains? I am aiming for pretty much this exact setup. Really curious about the bottom drains you had put in.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Here you go.

The layout of the bottom drain on the HLT and MLT are the same. Flat bottoms with the drain in the bottom front.

This is the outside. That seam is where the bottom of the tank is. A skirt attached below it hoses the bend for the drain.

img_20141017_211322-64021.jpg


This is the inside showing the drain.

img_20141017_211402-64022.jpg


This is the underside of the skirt. An up-skirt shot you could say...

img_20141017_211501-64020.jpg


Hope that helps.
 
I like that. I have a bottom drain MLT, but I wish that I had that for my MLT. Heck, it would be great to have that for the BK too so that I could just CIP the whole setup. I would not use the bottom drain BK for brewing, but it would make cleanup a freakin' breeze. I'll order that on my 40-gallon system, when I get to that in a year or two. I'm liking my 30-gallon kettles a lot.

I'm also jealous that you have a herms coil from stainless. My stout herms coil is sized nicely, but it is a piece o crapola. It must be 4 or 5 pieces welded together. Maybe even more.
 
That is awesome. You have inspired me. This is almost exactly what I want now lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
sandyeggoxj said:
I'm also jealous that you have a herms coil from stainless. My stout herms coil is sized nicely, but it is a piece o crapola. It must be 4 or 5 pieces welded together. Maybe even more.
Click to expand...

Wow. That's a new one. I had read that people didn't like the size but welding sections together? I love my tanks, but some of thier QC stuff makes me scratch my head sometimes. I'm glad I replaced from the start.

A bottom drain on the domed boil kettle is a great idea. I would have happily modified my stand for it if I had thought of it. For now I just use the shop vac to clean it out but a dump would be even easier.
 
November said:
Wow. That's a new one. I had read that people didn't like the size but welding sections together? I love my tanks, but some of thier QC stuff makes me scratch my head sometimes. I'm glad I replaced from the start.

A bottom drain on the domed boil kettle is a great idea. I would have happily modified my stand for it if I had thought of it. For now I just use the shop vac to clean it out but a dump would be even easier.
Click to expand...

Yeah every bend has 2 welds where they inserted an elbow instead of bending the tube. And then halfway through the coil they ran out and started with a new length of tubing. Overall the quality seriously disappoints me. But who is really a competitor?? I wanted 30 gallons, bottom out mlt and a combo whirlpool/bk. Stout was the only company that could really do it. They accomplish the task and the price was good.
 
Awesome work! I hope my (lack of) craftiness comes at least a bit close to your work. I'm thinking of mounting my panel like yours in order to make it able to move/monitor from other angles. How did you mount the panel(not VESA) to the tv mount (VESA?)? Also how has it worked out?
Thanks,
-pg
 
I made an adapter out of pre-perforated steel bar from home depot. I ran 4 pieces in a square and bolted the panel through the corners, then bolted two cross pieces to the square and bolted the tv mount to those pieces.

I'm out of town right now but I will see if my wife can snap a picture of it tonight.

It has worked great.
 
that would be awesome if you could show me how to do it...may have to rig up something similar!
-pg
p.s. sorry it took a bit to respond, been busy with the new baby!
 
I had a horrible experience with Stout tanks and kettles, I ordered 3 kettles from them, the mash tun had a hole punched in the bottom and then plug welded, it was such a poor repair that I complained, they offered a discount but I did not trust the longevity of this vessel and sent it back for a replacement. When the replacement arrived everything looked great... until I put water in it, within 20 minutes there was a ring of rust around the bottom drain. I got on the phone, they suggested barkeepers friend, it took the rust off, then I passivated the area with an acid that my local brewery uses to passivate their equipment, I put water in it again and within 20 minutes rust began to form, within 24hrs the ring of rust was huge, I cleaned and acid washed 2 more times to no avail.
I wanted my money back at this point, they agreed to give me a refund for all 3 kettles and they sent prepaid shipping labels which was great. When the tracking info showed that the kettles arrived at their location I called them to ask when I could expect my refund, they told me it may take 2 weeks as their bookkeeper was part time and did not work every day, I called them 2 weeks later Rich told me he would write a credit memo to the bookkeeper, I thought this strange, why had he not done this 2 weeks ago? he told me it would be another week. I called again in a week and was told he would write the credit memo today, what??? he still hadn't done a thing. I called again the next day and was told that they would send a check that very day, at this point I'm not believing a word of it.
Luckily, I paid for these kettles through Paypal, I called them and put a claim against Stout tanks and kettles, later in the day Stout tanks and kettles called me and said they sent the refund check, still not believing them, I continued with the claim, Paypal agreed that I should be refunded the price of the kettles AND shipping charges. In a day or two, I got an email from Stout tanks and kettles saying they have put a stop payment on the check they sent because I had put a claim to Paypal and they would pay that way. The refund check came but was for the price of the kettles minus $250.00 for shipping costs, I continued with the claim through Paypal and in the end they got ALL of my money back for me!

IMG-20150226-00116.jpg


IMG-20150227-00126.jpg


IMG-20150226-00118.jpg
 
The-Wall said:
I had a horrible experience with Stout tanks and kettles, I ordered 3 kettles from them, the mash tun had a hole punched in the bottom and then plug welded, it was such a poor repair that I complained, they offered a discount but I did not trust the longevity of this vessel and sent it back for a replacement. When the replacement arrived everything looked great... until I put water in it, within 20 minutes there was a ring of rust around the bottom drain. I got on the phone, they suggested barkeepers friend, it took the rust off, then I passivated the area with an acid that my local brewery uses to passivate their equipment, I put water in it again and within 20 minutes rust began to form, within 24hrs the ring of rust was huge, I cleaned and acid washed 2 more times to no avail.
I wanted my money back at this point, they agreed to give me a refund for all 3 kettles and they sent prepaid shipping labels which was great. When the tracking info showed that the kettles arrived at their location I called them to ask when I could expect my refund, they told me it may take 2 weeks as their bookkeeper was part time and did not work every day, I called them 2 weeks later Rich told me he would write a credit memo to the bookkeeper, I thought this strange, why had he not done this 2 weeks ago? he told me it would be another week. I called again in a week and was told he would write the credit memo today, what??? he still hadn't done a thing. I called again the next day and was told that they would send a check that very day, at this point I'm not believing a word of it.
Luckily, I paid for these kettles through Paypal, I called them and put a claim against Stout tanks and kettles, later in the day Stout tanks and kettles called me and said they sent the refund check, still not believing them, I continued with the claim, Paypal agreed that I should be refunded the price of the kettles AND shipping charges. In a day or two, I got an email from Stout tanks and kettles saying they have put a stop payment on the check they sent because I had put a claim to Paypal and they would pay that way. The refund check came but was for the price of the kettles minus $250.00 for shipping costs, I continued with the claim through Paypal and in the end they got ALL of my money back for me!
Click to expand...

Wow. Glad you got your refund. That is pretty messed up. Makes my little blemishes look like nothing.

You would think that they would have their own QC person in China to inspect this stuff before it comes over. At the very least, they should open it and inspect before shipping to the customer.

Good luck with it.
 
Another brewer on this site OrangeHero had an issue, although not as bad as yours, with Stout. If you read the forums, you will see a few issues pop up about the build quality with Stout Tanks.

The redneck in me loves the shiny bling-factor that Stout has, as well as the bottom drain port/ domed bottom to them. However, I look at things from a longevity stand-point and who can I trust. Ultimately, I went with Spike brewing for my Kettles. Ben over there pretty much backs up everything. I have had no issues with my kettle, but he was great to work with, and promptly replied to my concerns and questions. The quality was second-to-none and I know that my kettle is going to last for as conceivably long as I continue to brew.

Now if Spike ever started making coned bottoms on their kettles like Stout, I would be willing to bet that every person on the fence about purchasing a Stout or a Spike would easily purchase from Spike. All-in-all, my boil kettle is awesome and I couldn't be happier.
 
The-Wall said:
I had a horrible experience with Stout tanks and kettles, I ordered 3 kettles from them, the mash tun had a hole punched in the bottom and then plug welded, it was such a poor repair that I complained, they offered a discount but I did not trust the longevity of this vessel and sent it back for a replacement. When the replacement arrived everything looked great... until I put water in it, within 20 minutes there was a ring of rust around the bottom drain. I got on the phone, they suggested barkeepers friend, it took the rust off, then I passivated the area with an acid that my local brewery uses to passivate their equipment, I put water in it again and within 20 minutes rust began to form, within 24hrs the ring of rust was huge, I cleaned and acid washed 2 more times to no avail.
I wanted my money back at this point, they agreed to give me a refund for all 3 kettles and they sent prepaid shipping labels which was great. When the tracking info showed that the kettles arrived at their location I called them to ask when I could expect my refund, they told me it may take 2 weeks as their bookkeeper was part time and did not work every day, I called them 2 weeks later Rich told me he would write a credit memo to the bookkeeper, I thought this strange, why had he not done this 2 weeks ago? he told me it would be another week. I called again in a week and was told he would write the credit memo today, what??? he still hadn't done a thing. I called again the next day and was told that they would send a check that very day, at this point I'm not believing a word of it.
Luckily, I paid for these kettles through Paypal, I called them and put a claim against Stout tanks and kettles, later in the day Stout tanks and kettles called me and said they sent the refund check, still not believing them, I continued with the claim, Paypal agreed that I should be refunded the price of the kettles AND shipping charges. In a day or two, I got an email from Stout tanks and kettles saying they have put a stop payment on the check they sent because I had put a claim to Paypal and they would pay that way. The refund check came but was for the price of the kettles minus $250.00 for shipping costs, I continued with the claim through Paypal and in the end they got ALL of my money back for me!
Click to expand...
wow that really does look bad!
My girlfriend purchased my 12.5 gallon conical from stout tanks through ebay and the quality was is great.

I noticed you can now but the same exact conicals as stout sells from at least one other vender now on ebay from time to time. Here is a link to an 8 gallon conical which is identical in every way to the 12.5 gallon one I got from stout only smaller and sold by a different distributor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S...611?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3397b8acf3

Its my understanding that stout is just a distributor for the Chinese goods and may not have as much control over the manufacturing or design as we think... (SS brewing also buys their products from china but appears to have control and focus over design and consistent quality) my guess is stout struck a deal with a seller on alibaba to distribute their products and now the manufacturer is branching out to other middlemen in the states..

I have seen the same poor quality reported with many other stainless products like bayou classic kettles. there are even pictures on amazon of the kettles that were so thin they came with pinholes throughout the surface.
when I compare the 2 bayou kettles I own to the quality of my stout conical the conical is leaps and bounds better... and considering they are both considered the bargain priced products for what they are you have to expect things like imperfect welds and such as long as it doesnt effect use which was not the case in your situation.
 

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