2000 watt HD element in RIMS

[rgauthier20420]

Ok. I know this topic has been covered, but I can't seem to find any people that are recently talking about doing this. I run a RIMS tube for my mash. My set up is a bottom drain insulated keg and I use on of the Chinese tan pumps for the re-circulation. I also use a BIAB bag in the MT to allow me a finer crush than normal and aid in getting zero particulates in my pump. Lastly, I do no-sparge.

With that said, I've got close to 9 gallons or so of water along with the grain the MT when mashing. I'm currently running a 240V 4500W LWD element in the RIMS tube which gives me only 1150W in the tube. It's perfectly fine for maintaining temps, but when mashing out, it's loooooong. I mean 30 minutes to get to mash out temps long. Considering 9 gallons of water to heat, I can say I don't understand.

I want to see about putting a 2000W HW element in the RIMS tube and see the results. I understand that the high density elements are no desirable for the BK due to scorching. Also, in a RIMS tube you risk scorching as well if the flow is too slow and the element contacts the same area of wort for too long. My thoughts are that because the pump is pumping wort at a decent rate, that it won't have any time at all to scorch.

Before we get to a possible stuck mash, let me say. I've got the BIAB and a false bottom sitting at the bottom of the MT. I doughed in and kicked the pump on last time and is flowed just perfectly throughout the whole mash. No throttling or anything.

So, can anyone with experience with this type of setup comment to it's ability to function and not scorch the wort?

 

[atoughram]

I've scorched the mash with a 2,000W ULWD element in the RIMS tube.

http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/cPath/581_602_603/products_id/7052

The mash stuck, it scorched in the tube, I stirred it and ruined the whole mash. I tried fermenting it but it wouldn't loose the taste of burnt malt. I am now extra careful watching for signs of a stuck mash. I can only imagine that a HW element would a lot worse.

 

[rgauthier20420]

I've scorched the mash with a 2,000W ULWD element in the RIMS tube.

http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/cPath/581_602_603/products_id/7052

The mash stuck, it scorched in the tube, I stirred it and ruined the whole mash. I tried fermenting it but it wouldn't loose the taste of burnt malt. I am now extra careful watching for signs of a stuck mash. I can only imagine that a HW element would a lot worse.

So the scorched wort in this case was due to a stuck mash then? Not the element really.

Edit: I guess I should note that I'm running on 120V too.

 

[atoughram]

Originally I ran a 4500w element at 120V - 1125w and had very slow temperature steps like you have but never scorched a batch while still sticking a mash on occasion. I changed to a 2,000w @ 240V and scorched the third batch. I've run five batches total through the new system and I blame the scorched batch on the element.

As you increase the wattage on the RIMS tube, it becomes less and less forgiving to low flow situations.

BUT - if your running a 2000w 240v element at 120v - I doubt you'll scorch ever - because thats only 500w. If you want to run 240V 2000W - Make sure it's ULWD and still watch it closely.

In fact I see there are 1500w 240v elements out there that I might try if I scorch another batch.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I have a flow switch wired inline with the output of my RIMs, so if I happen to go below .5 gal/min (it's an adjustable switch), the RIMs heater will simply turn itself off.

 

[rgauthier20420]

Originally I ran a 4500w element at 120V - 1125w and had very slow temperature steps like you have but never scorched a batch while still sticking a mash on occasion. I changed to a 2,000w @ 240V and scorched the third batch. I've run five batches total through the new system and I blame the scorched batch on the element.

As you increase the wattage on the RIMS tube, it becomes less and less forgiving to low flow situations.

BUT - if your running a 2000w 240v element at 120v - I doubt you'll scorch ever - because thats only 500w. If you want to run 240V 2000W - Make sure it's ULWD and still watch it closely.

I'm considering a 120V 2000W HD element. No 240V here. Autoghram, thanks for the person experience with what I'm looking at doing. It's my understand that as long as the flow is going then scorching will not be an issue. Does that sounds right? As of now, I have full faith in my process for not getting a stuck sparge, and I really would like to get faster steps on this thing.

 

[Bobby_M]

If your temp probe is inside the RIMS tube, you shouldn't scorch even if the flow stops. The temp will quickly rise over the mash setpoint and the element shouldn't fire anymore.

 

[rgauthier20420]

If your temp probe is inside the RIMS tube, you shouldn't scorch even if the flow stops. The temp will quickly rise over the mash setpoint and the element shouldn't fire anymore.

This is good to hear. The wort flows right over my temp probe as it leaves the RIMS tube and this is the probe that operates the element.

 

[atoughram]

If your temp probe is inside the RIMS tube, you shouldn't scorch even if the flow stops. The temp will quickly rise over the mash setpoint and the element shouldn't fire anymore.

It's in the rims tube on the outlet side and didnt stop it - maybe an issue with an 18" tube being much longer than the element - the end of the element is many inches away from the RTD. I dont know.. For now I'll keep a close eye on the flow rate and use rice hulls on sticky mashes.

What kind of flow switch did you use rgauthier20420? I was thinking about a flow sensor and arduino but the switch sounds interesting too.

 

[rgauthier20420]

I don't use a flow switch.dryboroughbrewing was the one that mentioned he does. I use a BIAB and a false bottom under that to avoid suck sparge. Worked like a charm last time. I'm confident in my consistent flow so I'm thinking I'll give it a try.

 

[atoughram]

I don't use a flow switch.dryboroughbrewing was the one that mentioned he does. I use a BIAB and a false bottom under that to avoid suck sparge. Worked like a charm last time. I'm confident in my consistent flow so I'm thinking I'll give it a try.

By all means - just keep an eye on the flow

 

[Bobby_M]

It's in the rims tube on the outlet side and didnt stop it - maybe an issue with an 18" tube being much longer than the element - the end of the element is many inches away from the RTD. I dont know.. For now I'll keep a close eye on the flow rate and use rice hulls on sticky mashes.

What kind of flow switch did you use rgauthier20420? I was thinking about a flow sensor and arduino but the switch sounds interesting too.

Yes, for sure the distance between the element and probe would matter. It would take some time for convection to happen once flow stops. In all my testing so far, the gap between has been .5 - 2".

 

[rgauthier20420]

By all means - just keep an eye on the flow

Cross your fingers and I'll be sure to report back. This would make step mashes possible and mashing out a breeze.

 

[atoughram]

Yes, for sure the distance between the element and probe would matter. It would take some time for convection to happen once flow stops. In all my testing so far, the gap between has been .5 - 2".

The end of the element is nine inches from the end of the tube. The PT-100 probe is about two inches long - so there is seven inches or so between the end of the element and the probe. I should have ordered a 12" instead but I didn't know which element I was going to get. Maybe I'll try a longer probed RTD instead.

 

[rgauthier20420]

The end of the element is nine inches from the end of the tube. The PT-100 probe is about two inches long - so there is seven inches or so between the end of the element and the probe. I should have ordered a 12" instead but I didn't know which element I was going to get. Maybe I'll try a longer probed RTD instead.

I had the exact same issue when putting my RIMS tube together. The original center pipe was double what I'm not using. I decided to get a smaller pipe and I'm happy I did. The whole things is much smaller and especially when the element and housing are clamped on to the bottom. Care to post a pic of your setup? Always cool to see other people's interpretations on this stuff. A couple shots of my setup.

 

[atoughram]

Sure thing! The copper one was my first RIMS tube that I built ten years ago. The stainless one from Brew Hardware is what I currently use.

I see that Auber has a plug-n-play 8" probe.. I'll have to see if thats too long..