2 batches of saison brett, 2 failures

[Brett3rThanU]

I've done 2 batches of a saison brett now, both of which have been a failure. Hopefully someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Apologies I don't have the recipe handy, but it was mostly just pilsner malt and some wheat malt.

The first time I did recipe I mashed at 151F, used 3711 yeast and added Brett B to the secondary about a month in. The gravity was 1.007 at this point, so yes, very dry already I know. I let it age for over a year and the gravity dropped to .99 and it tasted like bandaids, but I bottled anyway. After sitting in the bottle nearly a year and not getting any better, I dumped it.

The second time I used the same recipe, but mashed at 154F. This time I used a vial of WLP565 because I heard it has a tendency to stall, plus some Orval dregs, and added Brett B all to the primary at the start. This time I also left it in primary and haven't touched it in a year. After all that it's still bland and slightly sour (likely some sort of infection).

Why am I not getting that Brett character I'm after like Boulevard Saison Brett? I'm looking for that horse blanket, barnyard taste. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[TAK]

In regard to the bandaid character, that sounds like chlorophenols. I'd wager a guess that you have chlorine or chloramine in your water. Brett can make bad flavors bonded to the chlorine. Do you treat your water with campden? If not, I'd highly recommend that.

 

[m00ps]

I think its likely just the brett strains youve been using. Ive had good luck using brett blends, but even the first blend I tried had a very lackluster brett character. The brett character was there, but the finish was way too clean and just drops off. YB Amalgamation has made me plenty of good brett beers. You definitely shouldnt need a whole year before bottling

also, id consider 1.007 to be on the sweet side of saisons. You dont need a high fg for brett to "chew on". I think that largely a myth that Chad from Crooked Stave has been trying to debunk. My last few brett beers were close to 1.000 when I transfered them and added brett and they still developed prominent brett character by 2 months. Ive never really gotten the horseblanket character though with my brett beers, my sours definitely. Ive mostly gotten that bracing tartness and added fruity flavors. did you taste them before you added brett?

Dont feel too bad or give up yet. Ive had a number of homebrewed brett beers and Its definitely a hard style to pull off

 

[Brett3rThanU]

The last batch I used RO water with minerals added so I know chlorine wasn't a factor. I'll try again with a different strain of Brett, or maybe 2 strains this time.

 

[Brizzo]

I've had fantastic results with saisons with wheat, 2 row, some rye and oats. Used danstar belle saison dry yeast and let it ferment down to 1.010 to 1.014 then adding dregs. My favorite dregs to add are cuvée Freddy. Let it go to 1.002(ish). Nice tartness, and it develops an awesome horse blanket and barnyard funk. I have been saving a gallon to reinoculate the next batch and they are all coming out almost exactly the same.

I have a spontaneous lambic style that has a strong bandaid flavor and it only fermented down to 1.030 but I attribute that to the wild yeast I am just gonna let it sit until it finally stalls out. I added some other known Brett to it to help it ferment out and hopefully clean up he bandaids but I am not optimistic about it

 

[Agate]

How did your beer taste prior to pitching brett? I'm thinking you had an issue from the start, and the brett just made it worse.

Also, how come you waited a year after pitching brett? That seems like an awful long time... Maybe O2 or some other bug crept in and spoiled it? Orval dregs are great - I don't think they're the cause.

 

[Brett3rThanU]

How did your beer taste prior to pitching brett? I'm thinking you had an issue from the start, and the brett just made it worse.

Also, how come you waited a year after pitching brett? That seems like an awful long time... Maybe O2 or some other bug crept in and spoiled it? Orval dregs are great - I don't think they're the cause.

It tasted fine prior to pitching the Brett.

I had just read that the longer brett sits to the more extreme the brett character you'll get.

 

[Agate]

True.. Band-aid is definitely an off phenolic flavor, though. Was there any rye in your grist? How did you produce the wort? Single infusion, or did you do something more complicated? An acid rest can definitely increase the phenolics and funk...

 

[TAK]

The last batch I used RO water with minerals added so I know chlorine wasn't a factor. I'll try again with a different strain of Brett, or maybe 2 strains this time.

You only mentioned that the first batch had bandaid (the second batch was just bland). So, only in regards to the first batch, I'd urge you to look at your water as the culprit. Free or total chlorine isn't good in general for brewing, but you may not notice it until you use Brett. And that sounds like what you may have seen in your first batch.

Using RO water obviously is a good solution. If you're going to use tap water, I'd say try using campden tablets.

The first time I used Brett, I got that bandaid phoenol. If you can find them, there are cheap test strips that will tell you if you have chlorine or chloramine. I couldn't find any locally when I looked, so I ended up paying like $20 for product plus shipping, but it confirmed I have chloramine in my water. Since them I've treated with campden tablets, and no more bandaid.

 

[lowtones84]

These are all good suggestions, but I would also recommend using only saison brett dregs if that's what you're really after. Jeremy Danner told me on twitter that it's bottled with the active strain of brett. Orval dregs are great though, I used to bottle the last gallon of every single batch with them