1st batch ready to bottle and.....MOLD

[doornumber3]

on top of a crappy day, started with me learning our first batch of beer has mold in it.....still have another fermenting that looks good but ouch....sucks. I think I did myself in. The airlock went dry for like 2 days....Ugh, definitely mold so i have to dump.

 

[zilch]

This is your 1st batch? How long has it been in the fermenter? Wait, don't dump - post pics 1st.

 

[beerbeerbeer123]

on top of a crappy day, started with me learning our first batch of beer has mold in it.....still have another fermenting that looks good but ouch....sucks. I think I did myself in. The airlock went dry for like 2 days....Ugh, definitely mold so i have to dump.

Post a pic..if its mold you do not have to dump..just rack from underneath and leave the mold behind

 

[doornumber3]

Its been 3 weeks......its at my buddies so i can't take a pic until saturday, were waiting til saturday but he's brewed for awhile and it's definitely mold....I don't really have an interest in racking from below if it's mold. I have 2 others fermenting that look great.

 

[Tupperwolf]

John Palmer says in How to Brew:

"Mold can usually be just skimmed off with no lasting effect on the beer's flavor. Withdraw a sample of the wort with a siphon or turkey baster and taste it. If it tastes foul then its not worth keeping. Otherwise the beer was probably not harmed. Infections in beer caused by molds are not dangerous. Be meticulous in your sanitation and you should not have any problems."

 

[beerbeerbeer123]

Its been 3 weeks......its at my buddies so i can't take a pic until saturday, were waiting til saturday but he's brewed for awhile and it's definitely mold....I don't really have an interest in racking from below if it's mold. I have 2 others fermenting that look great.

Dont dump it..when you have the chance to get over to your buddies house take a pic and post it..If its mold you can still salvage it.. but its your brew so its up to you if you wanna dump it..i do not condone dumping homebrew unless there is no chance of saving the batch..good luck

 

[carguy13]

mold in the beer? that's interesting, i live on the coast where everything in my house molds but my beer and my cigars... how do you get mold in the beer? sanitation?

 

[Revvy]

If it is mold you rack under and it will be fine. Several of us have done it. But we really would like to see a picture, you wouldn't BELIEVE the number of noobs who thought that krausen remains and hop gunk was mold.

 

[Tupperwolf]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's normal yeast rafts. Pics would be good.

 

[bottlebomber]

If it is mold you rack under and it will be fine. Several of us have done it. But we really would like to see a picture, you wouldn't BELIEVE the number of noobs who thought that krausen remains and hop gunk was mold.

This. And just because your buddy brews doesn't mean his word is gospel. Hell, I have a buddy that's been brewing longer than I, and yet somehow my kids know more about brewing than he.

 

[Revvy]

This. And just because your buddy brews doesn't mean his word is gospel. Hell, I have a buddy that's been brewing longer than I, and yet somehow my kids know more about brewing than he.

Yes, we've had folks who brewed for years, and never looked in their sealed buckets until long after the krausen fell, so they never saw one, until they decided it would be cool to swap out their old buckets for better bottles, and have started panic threads because for the first time they see "an ugly growth with brown and green stuff growing on top of their beer."

 

[doornumber3]

This. And just because your buddy brews doesn't mean his word is gospel. Hell, I have a buddy that's been brewing longer than I, and yet somehow my kids know more about brewing than he.

No I definitely won't do that but he's also a microbiologist for a job so i value that opinion on mold. I told h don't dump it til I see it Saturday. Ill post pics then. Thanks guys I really appreciate te help.

 

[scrapes]

Yes, we've had folks who brewed for years, and never looked in their sealed buckets until long after the krausen fell, so they never saw one, until they decided it would be cool to swap out their old buckets for better bottles, and have started panic threads because for the first time they see "an ugly growth with brown and green stuff growing on top of their beer."

Now I must brew in my better bottle just to see the show. I'm a noob so seeing the brown and green stuff would be part of my learning process. Sounds like a plan.

 

[unionrdr]

Why wait till Saturday? Is it too far to make it during the week? If that's the case,what's it doing so far away from you? If he's not going to keep an eye on it,don't trust him too. You wouldn't believe how many of these we read on here. the brewer leaves it in a friends or relatives garage who doesn't care a hoot in hell about watching it. Then it goes bad somehow,usually dry airlocks &/or bad sanitation. Seems like they just want to stay connected to the beer for when it's done & you gotta come back to bottle it.

 

[doornumber3]

Why wait till Saturday? Is it too far to make it during the week? If that's the case,what's it doing so far away from you? If he's not going to keep an eye on it,don't trust him too. You wouldn't believe how many of these we read on here. the brewer leaves it in a friends or relatives garage who doesn't care a hoot in hell about watching it. Then it goes bad somehow,usually dry airlocks &/or bad sanitation. Seems like they just want to stay connected to the beer for when it's done & you gotta come back to bottle it.

no not at all. He watches it all the time. I was the one who had it for a week and then moved it to his house because of temps. The airlock went dry for over a day at my house. I can't get over there because of work.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,if you have a spot in the house that's at 65F-70F somewhere,that'd be fine. And covering the fermenter with an old coat,blnaket,dark tee shirt...hell,I found out through pbservation that black velvet works great for maintaining temps in the mid-high 60's. Darn dog chewed up one of my smoking jackets,so rather than pitch it I tried covering fermenters with it. Works pretty darn good.
So check out your house with a thermometer & see if one spot meets my critieria.

 

[dstranger99]

How exactly do you get mold from just a 3 week primary ?..........

 

[unionrdr]

He said the airlock went dry for a couple days. Still doesn't make sense though. It's still a closed environment,& co2 is heavier than the surrounding air,which only has a 1/4" hole in the grommet to get through. So if it was during initial fermentation,it'd be a non issue.
Could most likely wind up a sanitation issue. Like if the fermenter has a spigot,& it & the mounting hole weren't properly cleaned,sanitized,& reinstalled prior to fermentation.

 

[Revvy]

You don't have a cellphone camera to throw a pic up?

 

[microbusbrewery]

He said the airlock went dry for a couple days...

This is the part I don't understand. I've seen several posts recently indicating airlocks have gone dry on people during primary. I live in Utah where the air is really dry...to the point that we say dumb things like "...but it's a dry heat..." during the summer and anything above 30% humidity feels extremely muggy to me. I've had sours in my fermenters for over 3 months without having to refill my airlocks; that's with both the three piece style and the S style, so it baffles me that one would go dry within 3 weeks.

The only thing I can think of is either it wasn't filled all the way, or it's cracked, or maybe missing a part (the little cap to the 3-piece), or some of the liquid was sucked into the fermenter (e.g. as the fermenter cooled or from lifting). Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[unionrdr]

That's why it doesn't make sense. Dry airlock,mold on top of beer. Can't be from air getting past two parts of the airlock in suffcient quantities to help the mold spores take hold. And said spores aren't ninja acrobats to get past all those curves in the airlock parts. so they had to already be in there. Mold & wild yeasts need air,moisture,& food to multiply & survive. So I still think it's a sanitation issue.

 

[homebrewdad]

That's why it doesn't make sense. Dry airlock,mold on top of beer. Can't be from air getting past two parts of the airlock in suffcient quantities to help the mold spores take hold. And said spores aren't ninja acrobats to get past all those curves in the airlock parts. so they had to already be in there. Mold & wild yeasts need air,moisture,& food to multiply & survive. So I still think it's a sanitation issue.

This... if it IS mold. My money is on yeast rafts, hop junk, and/or funky unfallen krasuen. Mold in three weeks should be hard to pull off.

 

[Yooper]

How exactly do you get mold from just a 3 week primary ?..........

It does happen! Once fermentation slows down, the co2 is no longer being produced and that leaves headspace. Not a big deal with an intact airlock, but without an airlock, mold and bacteria do take hold. I'm a winemaker, and one of the reasons we stir down the cap daily, even in the first days of primary, is to keep the fruit submerged to keep it from molding!

Think about it- leave food out without a cover for a few days at room temperature and open to oxygen. Then, even if you cover it, it can grow mold or other bacteria (like lactobacillus, aceterobacter, and/or pediococcus).

I wouldn't drink moldy beer, as I would be worried about the infection continuing in the bottle. But it sounds like lots of other people would (and do) so I'm probably overcautious.

 

[Revvy]

That's why it doesn't make sense. Dry airlock,mold on top of beer. Can't be from air getting past two parts of the airlock in suffcient quantities to help the mold spores take hold. And said spores aren't ninja acrobats to get past all those curves in the airlock parts. so they had to already be in there. Mold & wild yeasts need air,moisture,& food to multiply & survive. So I still think it's a sanitation issue.

Yup.

The thing to remember is, even with a dry airlock is that the bad stuff are not ninja acrobats....whether it is a 3 piece or an s type, they would have to get through the cap at the top, then either negotiate a series of twist and turns through an S shaped "track" OR have to dive down, then climb up the center post under the plastic bubbler, then lift said bubbler up enough to the make it into the center post and dive into your fermenter....and STILL have to negotiate the rising co2 current pushing out of the fermenter itself....Think about it...Even without water in there, do you think a piece of dust can make this journey?

Needless to say a piece of dust ain't gonna make it. And not much else either.

More than likely if it IS mold, it is from opening the bung or lid of the bucket and mold spores getting in that way, which would also have possibly voided the co2 in there. Remember mold can't exist in an an anaerobic environment. There has to be oxygen in there for it to live....Many new brewers thing break material and hops in the beer itself is mold, and we remind them that mold can't exist down there. If it happens it's a layer at the surface. But it's really, really, rare.

 

[unionrdr]

What bothers me about these hypothesies is the very small opening in the grommet & all the curves in tha airlock. the air has to get through all that in sufficient quantities to displace a suffcient amount of co2 to let the spores &/or single celled fungi to grow. And they aren't real good at cornering,so getting in with the air at such low pressures (ambient air psi) isn't very likely. And cleaning fruit was always a good thing to me when I made winee before cutting it up or whatever to add it to the must.
In the case for brewing beer,It was on something that didn't get sanitized that was put in after the boil,or something the beer was put into that had them on or in it. So I gotta agree there,revs. Not to belittle anyone's experiences,just going off fermenting knowledge I gained since 15 & A's in the living sciences. At least that part of this old fart still works half decent.

 

[doornumber3]

Thanks everyone. Trying to get friend to send a pic. Talked to a few people I know at breweries and said it is possible the airlock but most likely something wasn't sanitized and hit the beer. If its mold I'm dumping based on a very good explanation from an ex brewer from portsmouth brewery. I know it's a debate about the mold but if it is that its a dump for me. I have 2 others going right now and will bottle one within the next week.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks everyone. Trying to get friend to send a pic. Talked to a few people I know at breweries and said it is possible the airlock but most likely something wasn't sanitized and hit the beer. If its mold I'm dumping based on a very good explanation from an ex brewer from portsmouth brewery. I know it's a debate about the mold but if it is that its a dump for me. I have 2 others going right now and will bottle one within the next week.

I don't buy the story that a curved airlock keeps out mold and bacteria- I"ve been making wine for 20 years. Trust me, mold can grow even WITH an airlock but it's not that common. Without one, mold can certainly grow.

 

[kombat]

I know mold spores aren't "ninjas," but I think it's plausible that they could make it through the twists and curves of a dry airlock.

Consider, for example, the changing air temperature. I keep my carboys in my basement, and our house is on a programmable thermostat. That means that at different times of the day, the furnace kicks on and heats the house up, but at night it lets the temperature drop a little cooler.

Now, if my carboy has been warming up all day, then at night the furnace goes to sleep and lets the house cool down, my beer is going to start cooling. As the air inside the carboy cools, it contracts, creating a slight vacuum. Since it's not sealed airtight, it seeks to equalize pressure with the surrounding environment, and the way it does that is by sucking air in through the (dry) airlock. It seems quite possible to me that the air being sucked in could easily carry dust and mold spores with it, into the beer.

It's the same reason we take the airlocks off our carboys when we move them into the fridge to cold-crash. If you don't, then you end up with a couple onces of Star-San getting sucked in through your airlock, into your beer.

 

[unionrdr]

The thing to remember here is that all that liquid in the fermenter takes quite a while to change. It doesn't happen very quickly.

 

[kombat]

The thing to remember here is that all that liquid in the fermenter takes quite a while to change. It doesn't happen very quickly.

Right, I'm not saying it's a noticeable sucking effect - I'm just saying it happens. The opening in a dry airlock is pretty tiny (since the floater is resting on the already-narrow inlet pipe), so certainly a small but real air current would develop through the (dry) airlock.

 

[J8D]

Call me paranoid, but I think your buddy was planning on giving you the good ole, "the beer was moldy and I had to dump it" line. Just another case of a scientist using his powers for evil instead of good. You wouldn't be the first guy to fall victim to such a scam. Hell, this sort of greed has led to the breakup of many famous brewing partnerships. Come to think of it, it was Peter Criss telling the rest of KISS that their inaugural batch of "Detroit Rock City Pale Ale" had mold on it and had been dumped that led to the original band breaking up back in 1980. Awhile after Peter had supposedly "dumped" the beer, Gene stopped by Beth's house to ask her to quit calling during band practice. That's when he found out that Peter had actually kegged the not-so-moldy beer, stashed it at Beth's, and the two love birds had already polished off half the keg. The rest is of course rock and roll history. So now, instead of drinking what likely would have been one of the premier microbrews, we got stuck with Gene Simmons Family Jewels. I CURSE YOU PETER CRISS!!!!!!

 

[freisste]

And the award for post of the week goes to....

 

[unionrdr]

Wow. First time I heard that story.

 

[Yooper]

I just want to be clear here- am I the only one who thinks headspace + dry airlock = an issue? Because I do. Hugely. This is not a "rdwhahb" moment. This beer is trashed, due to the dry airlock and the headspace during the dry airlock.

I think I must be crazy, as I'm the only one saying that this is a huge issue. But it is. My bet is that the beer is trash.

 

[doornumber3]

I just want to be clear here- am I the only one who thinks headspace + dry airlock = an issue? Because I do. Hugely. This is not a "rdwhahb" moment. This beer is trashed, due to the dry airlock and the headspace during the dry airlock.

I think I must be crazy, as I'm the only one saying that this is a huge issue. But it is. My bet is that the beer is trash.

Nope, i think it's trash too. I'll see saturday but if it's mold here's the best explanation i got from an ex brewer who worked at a micro as to why you dump it.

"To answer the mold question, the batch is dead. The only beers intentionally infected would be lambics and those are distinct types. to explain what would happen if you skim and bottle, if you bottle after skimming the sugar you added and the residual sugars would be consumed by the anaerobic bacteria and mold that are now quite happy they are isolated and fed, they would produce gases in the same way yeast does so the liquid would be carbonated. with one exception, they eat all the sugars and the bottles would start to explode, or if they did not explode and you opened one it would turn into a geyser out the top. The most likely culprit is the dry airlock allowing air exchange or a vacumn to occur. Also don't use just water in your airlock as it will grow mold based on the sugars exhaled into solution from the outgassing, i used iodine water during active fermentation the and then switch to vodka or isopropyl alchol in it once fermentation slows.

 

[unionrdr]

Interesting. It sounds like if you get a partial vacuum,combined with the dry airlock,the resulting suckback can bring in nasties. I guess the extra force of suckback is sorta like inhaling. Whatever's in the air it inhales could cause an infection. Have to keep this in mind. Good to know the Vodka bit I got from Gary on Home Brewer TV really does what was claimed. It sure seems to ime.

 

[doornumber3]

yeah, my buddy swears by bleach and water in the airlock but now i'm thinking......if you get a vacuum, that batch is dead. I'm going to start doing the vodka for sure.

 

[Varmintman]

I just want to be clear here- am I the only one who thinks headspace + dry airlock = an issue? Because I do. Hugely. This is not a "rdwhahb" moment. This beer is trashed, due to the dry airlock and the headspace during the dry airlock.

I think I must be crazy, as I'm the only one saying that this is a huge issue. But it is. My bet is that the beer is trash.

Because of all the photos in this forum showing infections I have started to fill my secondary right up into the neck when I rack the beer. I am a big time believer that headspace is a bad thing.

As far as the mold thing is concerned I would not drink it. I have cut mold off of cheese and bread before but it just seems wrong to drink a beer that has had mold in it.

 

[unionrdr]

I figure that using the cheap vodka in airlocks is the most neutral liquid to use. No flavor,no chemicals,etc to get in the beer in the event of a suckback. And nasties die of alcohol poisoning.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I just want to be clear here- am I the only one who thinks headspace + dry airlock = an issue? Because I do. Hugely. This is not a "rdwhahb" moment. This beer is trashed, due to the dry airlock and the headspace during the dry airlock.

I think I must be crazy, as I'm the only one saying that this is a huge issue. But it is. My bet is that the beer is trash.

How could it not be an issue?

The same people who say airlocks bubble because of temperature fluctuations (gas being expelled from solution now say temperature won't cause air to flow into the fermenter.....

Smh......