110v Recirculating eBIAB 2.5 gallon batches

[P-J]

Even after reading the thread twice, I have a couple of questions regarding a 2 element build.

My shop/garage has a 240 outlet but all of the 120V plugs are on one circuit breaker so I can't use 2 120V plugs. When weather permits I would like to use the system on 240V but when I have to brew indoors I would like to use it on 120V since there's not a 240V outlet but I can get to different plugs on different circuit breakers.

Can I wire the system to use one leg(?) of the 240V to each element so I can brew in my shop (5 gallons) and then also have each element set to have 120V plugged in when I want to brew in the house (2.5 gallons with one plug and 5 gallon with both)? So in effect I would have 3 input plugs. 1 for 240 and 2 for 120V. Not being an electrician I just want to be sure there's not anything really dangerous about this.

If this is impossible or dangerous, please let me know.

Very helpful group on this thread and the builds are awesome!

raysmithtx.

There are a lot of things that can be done to achieve what you are wanting to do.

Please tell me more about what you are trying to achieve. I'll put my old brain to work to try and give you a solution. BUT - I need a lot more more info about your desired set up...

P-J

 

[raysmithtx]

P-J
Thank you for the offer to help. I don't know specifically what additional info you need so if the following info is not enough info or the right info, just let me know.

I mostly do 5 gallon batches so I need to typically mash around 8 gallons of water. Right now I'm using propane but want to convert to electric so I can also brew indoors and have more flexibility.

I think the 2 element system to would give me the most flexibility but there are some issues:

The detached shop/garage I do most of my brewing in has a 240V outlet available but all of the shop outlets/plugs are on a single breaker so I can't use a 2 120v element set up because I don't have 2 separate circuit breakers available. The circuit breaker for the shop plugs is a single 15 amp.

On the occasions when I move to brew indoors I can get to 2 outlets in my kitchen that are on different circuit breakers (15 amps each). I figure I can use 2 GFCI extension cords with this set up.

In looking at some of the builds (Thank you for the drawings you have done on this thread, very helpful) it appears I could build a system using 2 120V elements and power each on via a separate cord.

Which brings me to my main question. Would it be possible to build a system that could be powered by 240V when available (in my shop) but also have it possible to power from 2 120V outlets for indoor brewing? I think this would require 3 input plugs (2-120V and 1 240V).

If that's not possible then would it be possible to split the 240V power in my shop into 2 separate 120V outlets and use them to power the 2 elements?

I don't think this is a thread hijack since I am looking to build a system you already were kind enough to design. Thanks again for your offer to assist me.

 

[Salpino]

I've had my build running for a few months and have made some EXCELLENT beer. As luck would have it, I found a 10 gallon Blichmann Boilermaker pot for cheap on Craigslist. Too good of a deal to pass up.

This presents an interesting problem. I'm happy with my current setup, though moving to 240v would be easy for me since I already have a dedicated 240v outlet wired in my garage. My question is: what modifications would I need to make to the control box, which I wired exactly to P-J's original schematic, in order to move to a single 4500w or 5500w element system on 240v?

I know I need new 240v plugs and cords in 10g , and need to replace all of the 12G wire with 10G wire in the panel. Anything else I'm missing?

P-J, thank you again for a fantastic design.

 

[drinkdrankpunk]

Yup this is what I needed to find. Back in june I moved from a house with a big garage to brew in so I had a decent set up to a tiny apartment. I am not allowed to use a burner on the patio so I would need to be electric to brew there.it rains a lot here and apparently it gets cold as hell here and people dont really want to be outside in the winter. Also I lost my kegerator so small batches are ideal. Thank you for this I will be trying to build this very soon and thanks to everyone in advance for answering all of the questions I will have when I get started.

 

[bayoujeeper]

I've added the Auber Instruments Timer JSL-71A to the diagram. I hope that is the one you were looking to incorporate in your build.
And - as always - Click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

​

Wishing you the best.

P-J

Looking at using this diagram although dual elements. My question is in ordering the switches 5 and 6 that work with the timer. There are two options when ordering either 2 normally open contacts, or one normally open and one normally closed. Which do I need?
thanks!

Thanks again to P-J for all of his hard work!

 

[P-J]

Looking at using this diagram although dual elements. My question is in ordering the switches 5 and 6 that work with the timer. There are two options when ordering either 2 normally open contacts, or one normally open and one normally closed. Which do I need?
thanks!

Thanks again to P-J for all of his hard work!

I would recommend the N/O - N/C switches. That would give you other options later on.

P-J

 

[bayoujeeper]

Thanks P-J! You are the man! Could I get a second element added to the drawing? Actually this drawing, just add a second element

​

 

[P-J]

Thanks P-J! You are the man! Could I get a second element added to the drawing? Actually this drawing, just add a second element

​

Just add the second element control and power source from this diagram. The setup will use the same contactor with the second power source and second SSR.


As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

 

[bayoujeeper]

Would this also still be fully functional with only one element plugged in? Obviously only one element would be firing, but would everything else function?

 

[P-J]

Would this also still be fully functional with only one element plugged in? Obviously only one element would be firing, but would everything else function?

No. You would need to source the contactor coil power going though swich 1 from plug 1 instead of plug 2. With that, you would be good to go with only plug 1.

 

[bayoujeeper]

No. You would need to source the contactor coil power going though swich 1 from plug 1 instead of plug 2. With that, you would be good to go with only plug 1.

So if I have 2 SSR's (1 for each element) I can run them both off of one switch and one coil? I wouldn't need a switch and coil for each element? I have seen one of your drawing floating around with dual elements that calls for a switch and a coil for each.

 

[P-J]

So if I have 2 SSR's (1 for each element) I can run them both off of one switch and one coil? I wouldn't need a switch and coil for each element? I have seen one of your drawing floating around with dual elements that calls for a switch and a coil for each.

It's however you want to do it. The other diagram you speak of is this one:

As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")

 

[bayoujeeper]

Yep.. that's the one I am planning my build around. So if I want to add the timer and switches into that I would just source off of plug 1 right? That way everything would function if plug 2 were not being used right?

Thanks again P-J.

 

[P-J]

Yep.. that's the one I am planning my build around. So if I want to add the timer and switches into that I would just source off of plug 1 right? That way everything would function if plug 2 were not being used right?

Thanks again P-J.

Yes that is correct.

 

[bayoujeeper]

Yes that is correct.

Last Question, if I used the "Beer Timer" Part #JSL 73 from Auberins, it would be wired the same way as the timer in the drawing using the flashing buzzer and switches right?

 

[P-J]

Last Question, if I used the "Beer Timer" Part #JSL 73 from Auberins, it would be wired the same way as the timer in the drawing using the flashing buzzer and switches right?

Yes that is correct.

P-J

 

[bayoujeeper]

Thanks again P-J, this would not be possible for me if it wasn't for guys like you!

 

[P-J]

Thanks again P-J, this would not be possible for me if it wasn't for guys like you!

You are more than welcome. It pleases me that so many brewers on this forum have been successful in their adventure. It is the basic reason that I make the diagrams as I believe they are easier to follow than most others displayed.

Just my personal opinion and worth every minute of my time helping others. (Plus it keeps my brain energized doing the mind jumps.)

P-J

 

[drinkdrankpunk]

As I am trying to plan this out I stumbled across this DIY kit from electric brewing supply for a 1 PID 20a 120v RIMS Kit. here is the link http://www.ebrewsupply.com/ebrew-kits/ebrew-pid-kits/rims-20a-kit.html

would this give me most of what I need to make the control box rather than ordering all of the things separate? does this seem like a good deal?

 

[bayoujeeper]

P-J,
I may be changing my direction on my build, any way I could get a drawing like above (110v dual element, 1 pump , E-stop, key switch, etc) but with a BCS460 instead of a PID? I would like to be able to manually turn on the pump and elements as well. Once again, all of your hard work is greatly appreciated. Also sorry to Hijack the thread guys, Just didn't want to start yet another electrical drawing thread..

You are more than welcome. It pleases me that so many brewers on this forum have been successful in their adventure. It is the basic reason that I make the diagrams as I believe they are easier to follow than most others displayed.

Just my personal opnion and worh every minute of my time helping others. (Plus it keeps my brain energized doing the mind jumps.)

P-J

 

[P-J]

P-J,
I may be changing my direction on my build, any way I could get a drawing like above (110v dual element, 1 pump , E-stop, key switch, etc) but with a BCS460 instead of a PID? I would like to be able to manually turn on the pump and elements as well. Once again, all of your hard work is greatly appreciated. Also sorry to Hijack the thread guys, Just didn't want to start yet another electrical drawing thread..

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

 

[bayoujeeper]

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

I believe your right P-J, I will stick with the 110v PID setup. Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[ekjohns]

I built my system a while ago and love it. I recently decided I should get double use out of it and use it for sous vide. My concern however is leaving the system running while at work. Here is the scenarios and solutions I have come up with.

1. SSR can fail in the closed state, and because sous vide needs to sit for up to 48 hrs I am afraid of a failure that will cause the water to boil while at work which could cause the pot to run dry and become a fire hazard. My solution was to use this normally closed relay from auber which will go between the alarm and contactor. Thus if the kettle gets above the set temp the alarm goes off opening the relay and turning off the contactor effectively killing power to the element.

2. A short in the electrical wire which could cause a fire. This should be covered by the GFCI which would trip and kill power correct? My electrical box is made of metal and grounded so any short should not cause a significant fire. I have also recheck all the wires and the terminal clips are on very tight.

3. PID failure. In this case the PID should break the signal to the SSR stopping power. I also have fast blow fuses so a power spike should blow the fuse and thus kill power to the whole thing.

Are these legitimate solutions to these problems? Can anyone else think of any problems that might arise while at work? I would really like to make it as safe as possible without being paranoid.

P-J if it is not too much to ask could you design a diagram to encompass the normally closed relay that is controlled by the alarm as a fail safe in the case of a SSR failure

 

[P-J]

...
P-J if it is not too much to ask could you design a diagram to encompass the normally closed relay that is controlled by the alarm as a fail safe in the case of a SSR failure

Quetion... What is your base diagram? If I'm going to modify a diagram for you - I need a starting point. No?

P-J

 

[ekjohns]

Yes that would help wouldn't it! I am using the basic diagram below with the following changes. 1. I do not have a switch for the pump. 2. I have a main push button switch that controls a contactor for main power to the whole control panel.

Thanks again for all your help P-J!

 

[bayoujeeper]

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

P-J,
After much thought, I have decided this is the way I would like to go (Dual 110V, BCS-460, key switch, alarm/Buzzer, with manual options). If you have some free time to do a drawing for this, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again for all of your help on these electric builds!

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

This thread is a little old but I'm glad I found it. Pretty much exactly what I want to do. Had some parts and have started buying others. Many thanks to all involved including OP and PJ.

 

[orangehero]

Get rid of the spray tip, just lay a short length of silicone hose on top of the grain.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Tagging this thread because:
1) It's chock full of awesome instructions
2) Great builds.
3) I've got an unused turkey pot and NEED to make one of these.

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

All parts are in and started drilling holes for switches and such. Kettle almost done just have to clean up element and get it installed. Pretty good start so far.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Serious question for those in the know and those with recliners and an educated guess -

Piecing together one of these over the next few months, and I'm stuck at power/elements.

Here's the deal:

The house is old (25+years), and while the kitchen does have two 20A circuits ACCORDING to the breaker box, there are no 20A outlets in the kitchen. All are 15A. I've got no problem swapping out some outlets, but I have no idea what gauge the wiring is, and given the age of the house and it's requirements at the time of build I'm suspecting that it's not the 12/2 I'm required for a dedicated 20A circuit. Because of that, I'm not going to change the outlets, leaving me with essentially two 15A circuits.

Doing the math, a 1500W/120VAC element should be able to get 3.25gal of water up to boil (provided the pot is insulated, and you've got an hour to spare). What kind of boil it'll be I have no idea, but if the time required is any indication it's not going to be a hard boil.

Obviously a 2000W element would be a better choice, so my question is would it be a good idea to put in an additional 1500W element, and run it via extension cable to another circuit for the sake of boiling? Eg, run the one element for mash/recirc, and turn the other one on for boil only?

Seems like an awful lot going on for a 7gal pot, but what's the point of doing this if the results aren't going to be acceptable.

Thanks!

 

[iijakii]

Why not just pull out the receptacle and see what gauge wiring it is running?

But yeah, what you could do is have one element running to your control panel, controlled via PID; then your other element plugged directly into the wall (or to your panel with a flip-receptacle combo) that's strictly on-off. That'd be the simplest route. There's also a way to have the PID control two elements simultaneously, I know PJ made a diagram for someone doing that... I think it's in that dual 2kw thread here on the front or second page.

But most importantly: you don't need to do any of this, most likely. People say 2000W will bring 5 gallons to a good boil, and some say it brings 6g to a boil, some say it doesnt (might depend on diameter and insulation?). So if 2000w boils 5+gal I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?

 

[Carlscan26]

"I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?" - I agree. Why not try it if you're really not sure - you can always add the second element in later.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Why not just pull out the receptacle and see what gauge wiring it is running?

But yeah, what you could do is have one element running to your control panel, controlled via PID; then your other element plugged directly into the wall (or to your panel with a flip-receptacle combo) that's strictly on-off. That'd be the simplest route. There's also a way to have the PID control two elements simultaneously, I know PJ made a diagram for someone doing that... I think it's in that dual 2kw thread here on the front or second page.

But most importantly: you don't need to do any of this, most likely. People say 2000W will bring 5 gallons to a good boil, and some say it brings 6g to a boil, some say it doesnt (might depend on diameter and insulation?). So if 2000w boils 5+gal I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?

I'm sure I could pull the outlet and check the gauge, but according to the box, it's a multi-outlet series - according to code (if I'm understanding it correctly) the 20A circuit has to be a dedicated circuit, which won't be possible with the current wiring in the walls.

I've been collecting PJ's diagrams - he makes wiring those controllers so easy. Seriously, I look at schematics all day long for work and his diagrams are purposeful, simple to understand, and easy to replicate even for those not electrically inclined. Dude needs a high five and a beer whenever he is met in society.

I think the only main issues I was concerned with when using the 1500W element was the time to boil and the level of uncertainty when using "enough" power instead of "MORE" power. I didn't know folks were using a single 2KW element for 5gal, I thought for sure that'd be in 3KW (208/220) or dual 2KW elements.

I'll plan the build with one 1500W element, but position the pickup tube and temp probe out of the way in case I need to add another element directly opposite the first.

Two other questions not directly related -

1) Sight glass for volume. Worth it? Or an additional "meh" to clean?
2) Anyone see the PID/SSR/heatsink combo on Amazon? LINK: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

35 bucks seems a little cheap, but a 25A SSR and controller would fit the 1500W build with no issues I can see...

 

[iijakii]

Definitely do a sight-glass. They're not a pain to clean IMHO, plus it's boil side anyways ,who cares if it's dirty . I think the 1500w with room to add another one if need be is a good solution.

I don't think the outlets have to be dedicated. I thought so too at first, but my apartment was built after the code update and it has two different 20A circuits in the kitchen, but they aren't dedicated. One runs all of the outlets in the dining room as well, the other one does the fridge and a couple other kitchen outlets.

 

[user 78027]

I have similar electrical issues in my house. I am in the first stages of my design so it might not even end up like this.

I was going to use two heating elements somewhere around 800 watts. Since the current is lower for each element I was going to put the ssr and the transistor that turns it on in the box that houses the element. I am building my own pid with an fpga so I can control each element separately if I want to. With the AC power for each element local to the element the power can come from where ever I need, even a better extension cord in the room next door.

 

[andrhamm]

2) Anyone see the PID/SSR/heatsink combo on Amazon? LINK: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



35 bucks seems a little cheap, but a 25A SSR and controller would fit the 1500W build with no issues I can see...

I picked up this combo for my 1500w panel. Haven't installed it yet but my initial impression is that the PID itself is fairly cheap feeling compared to the Auber PIDs on my Kal clone... the face of the PID is uneven, making the arrow on the right difficult to press to the point where it clicks like the other buttons. I'm afraid it could make setting the parameters a pain but we'll see. But if it works, the price is a great deal at less than an Auber PID on its own. Curious if anybody else has experience with this PID as well...

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

Getting closer every day. Panel is all wired up (except the e-stop). I need to finish the element in the kettle and give it a leak test. Soon it will be time to test drive. This is a lot of **** in a little box. FYI don't assemble the box until most of the wiring is complete. The box itself can be a pain in the ass because it's miss shaped and holes don't line up correctly. Over all I'm happy with the way it turned out so far.

 

[Sippin37]

The box itself can be a pain in the ass because it's miss shaped and holes don't line up correctly.

Haha, I had the same issue. I dont think I even used 2 of the screws it came with. I have just enough in there to keep it together. But boy do I love this setup, makes brew days so much more enjoyable!

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

TaDa... Got it all finished, finally!!! 18 hour leak test on kettle and not a drop. Final wire up of the element, calibration of site tube, and it's off for a test run. So far nobody has been electrocuted so that's good. Amazed at how quiet the pump runs. I to had to lossen the body screws to get it to start pumping, but kind of expected that from prior posts. Once temp gets up some I'll auto tune this bad boy and should be ready to start the year off with a mini brew session. Many thanks again to jrb03 and P-J, as well as others on this thread.