10 gallon round igloo cooler and a bazooka tube. What do you calculate your dead spac

[nosoup4me]

What do you usually account for in dead space on this setup? I've been overshooting my preboil volume and under shooting my OG. My guess is that I'm accounting for too much dead space in my round 10 gallon cooler with a bazooka tube. I measured it when I first put it together and got .69 gallons but I'm guessing it's lower when grain is added.

What do you usually put in for your dead space volume in beersmith?

 

[jekeane]

I think a lot of people just use the default. You can put a couple measured gallons of water in your tun and then drain and measure the remaining. Beersmith accounts for grain absorption separately from dead space i believe. Alot of people tip their cooler prior to lautering to get a little more out although I think this might be a little bit more difficult to measure accurately.

 

[Singletrack]

Why would anyone accept the dead space of an un-tipped MLT? For the love of beer, jam a wedge under that witch and drain her!

I have the same setup and something like 0.05 gal of dead space when tipped 30 degrees.

 

[nosoup4me]

Why would anyone accept the dead space of an un-tipped MLT? For the love of beer, jam a wedge under that witch and drain her!

I have the same setup and something like 0.05 gal of dead space when tipped 30 degrees.

So I'll just won't calc for dead space and tip it next time? Do you ever overshoot your pre boil volume?

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I leave about a quart of cloudy wort in my bazooka 10 gallon igloo mash tun without tipping. I was getting some unpleasant graininess so I vorlouf until clear, drain the mash tun more slowly and leave that last quart. This has resulted in smoother beers at a cost of some efficiency.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If your short of pre boil volume, you can tip the cooler, or you can sprinkle some sparge water over the grain bed and collect more runnings.

I typically sparge to preboil, if that means additional sparge water I just do a sprinkle sparge over the grain in the cooler.

 

[Singletrack]

So I'll just won't calc for dead space and tip it next time? Do you ever overshoot your pre boil volume?

I have the pre-boil volume dialed in based on a dead space of 0.05 gal. I don't even pay attention to pre-boil volume anymore, because I measure volume with 20 min left in the boil and adjust boil time to hit my post-boil volume. Generally, an adjustment isn't necessary.

I do not use BS, so I don't know its estimated grain absorption rate. That will matter a lot more than dead space if you tip the tun.

BTW, I disagree with the idea that leaving wort behind makes better beer. I batch sparge, so that last quart of wort is the same as the quart that preceded it. Don't let one fellow brewer convince you to waste wort without some science to explain why.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

When I sparge the last bit of wort at the bottom of the mash tun is not nearly as clear as the wort that preceded it. Nor is the first few quarts that I vorlouf. Will it ruin your beer? No. I have found that having a clearer wort has improved my beer. Is that science? No, just sharing my experience.

By the way don't let a fellow brewer convince you to vary your boil times based on your inability to hit your pre- boil volumes. Your IBUs will be all over the place. No offense Singletrack just not sure about the brewing science behind that technique.

I agree with Wilserbrewer's advice, if you come up short on your pre-boil volume sprinkle some more sparge water and let it run through the mash to hit your pre-boil volume and a little tilting won't hurt. I've done it plenty of times.

 

[Singletrack]

Well, I stated that: 1) My preboil is dialed in. Yes, you should do that too. 2) I generally do NOT make an adjustment of boil time. But I do check it, and this has helped me get boil-off dialed in too.

However, for fun, let's say I added 10 minutes to my 60 minute boil with 40 IBU from the 60 minute addition. My IBU's would jump all the way to 41.6. Oh no, now that's way too bitter! I challenge you to taste that difference.

That's why you want to use some science, math, and logic in your decision-making, and not rely on the anecdotal experiences or opinions of others.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Let's examine the science, math, and logic in your decision-making...

Typical pale ale hopping schedule for bittering, flavor and aroma additions...
1 oz of 8% alpha hops at boil times that only vary by 10 minutes...
50, 10, 0...IBU 45
60, 20, 10...IBU 68
70, 30, 20...IBU 83


Or adjust your sparge water and dead space calculations which is what the OP was asking about.

 

[njpatg]

I am a tipper , never had an issue

 

[bigdaddybrew]

...I've been overshooting my preboil volume and under shooting my OG...What do you usually put in for your dead space volume in beersmith?

To dial in your volumes using BeerSmith carefully measure volumes during each step of the process. Mash water, sparge water, pre-boil, and post-boil batch volume and trub losses.

I tip until cloudy and lose a quart to Mash Tun dead space.

I lose 1 gallon per hour of boil (13.8%). This value depends on how aggressive your boil is as well as the air temperature and humidity. I lose 1.5 gallons per hour (19.4%) in freezing weather.

I lose 1 quart (4%) to cooling shrinkage.

The grain absorbs 0.96 fluid ounce/ounce of grain.

The other value is loss to trub and chiller which is easy to measure after you have filled your fermenter.

Using these volumes and orignal gravity you should be able to adjust the various numbers in BeerSmith until the predicted values match up with the actual values you measured. Use this information to build and save a personalized "Equipment profile". Then next time you create a recipe select this profile and the numbers will match right up as long as you follow the same process.

I hope this helps. If you have more questions just ask.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Let's examine the science, math, and logic in your decision-making...

Typical pale ale hopping schedule for bittering, flavor and aroma additions...
1 oz of 8% alpha hops at boil times that only vary by 10 minutes...
50, 10, 0...IBU 45
60, 20, 10...IBU 68
70, 30, 20...IBU 83


Or adjust your sparge water and dead space calculations which is what the OP was asking about.

This is true if all hop additions are added at the originally specific time. However, if one extends the boil, I strongly and always suggest timing any late hops to flame out, doing this only has a very slight marginal affect on the bittering addition, all other hop additions are unchanged as they are moved predicated on flame out and there boil times are unchanged from the original recipe.

Of course this is not best practice, but rather a "fix" should one realize they are over volume. Rigidly holding a parameter to the detriment of the brew makes no sense to me.

70 10 0. IBU 46

 

[IronLion409]

Good question. I tip my cooler hoping to reduce dead space loss to zero but assume there is still a small amount I can't get to. I'm also very patient about getting as much out as I can on each running. Not sure if this is good practice or not. Is it worth that last .25 gallon of wort time wise to wait when you are down to a trickle?

 

[bigdaddybrew]

This is true if all hop additions are added at the originally specific time. However, if one extends the boil, I strongly and always suggest timing any late hops to flame out, doing this only has a very slight marginal affect on the bittering addition, all other hop additions are unchanged as they are moved predicated on flame out and there boil times are unchanged from the original recipe.

Of course this is not best practice, but rather a "fix" should one realize they are over volume. Rigidly holding a parameter to the detriment of the brew makes no sense to me.

A beer with a single hop addition would be very close to the original recipe. An IPA with a complex hopping schedule might end up very different if you change the boil time by 10 minutes either way even if you alter the timing of the remaining hop additions. Not even considering the difficulty in reproducing this beer on subsequent brewing days. A lot would depend at what point in the boil the brewer decides to extend or shorten the boil and what hops had already been added. I'm not sure this is the best brewing practice.

I measure my pre-boil volume. If I come up short I add some sparge water to the mash and collect it until I hit my pre-boil volume. I usually boil off one gallon per hour and leave a quart of trub in the pot. I want a 5 gallon batch and I have collected 5.75 gallons. I add two more quarts or so to the mash and tip the mash tun a bit until I have collected 6.25 gallons. Boil time is now a predictable 60 minutes.

If I end up with too much pre-boil wort, I measure how much extra I have and adjust my boil time accordingly. I want 6.25 gallons pre-boil but end up with 6.5 of wort. Since I boil off about one gallon per hour if I add 15 minutes to my boil time I will lose the extra quart. Now my boil time is a predictable 75 minutes.

The key is carefully measuring your volumes, knowing your process and being able to reproduce it.

Have I extended the boil so I can hit my predicted original gravity? Yep.
Have I tipped my mash tun to hit my pre-boil volume? Yep.