10.10.10 Recipe Discussion Thread - The HBT Anniversary Series

[SpanishCastleAle]

Are you guys aiming for 1.100 before or after the sugar additions?

Def after the sugar. By my calculations; for a 5.25 gal. batch and assuming I use 2.5# sugar then I'll need to hit ~1.079 OG just from the grain.

Good news for me. Just this past weekend I brewed a Traditional Bock using 14.5# grain and this looks to be about the limit of my lauter tun. I actually have to wait for it to settle/drain a bit before I can even fit all of the mash in there. But I still got ~82% eff (including everything...the last 2.5 qt. don't go into the fermenter so I only got ~79% into-the-fermenter) so it looks like 14-14.5# should be just right for this brew for my system.

And I caved and ordered a pound of Styrian Goldings...along with a pound of Saphir which I have never even heard of.

Regarding the Belgian Blonde Ale or Belgian Pale Ale or whatever yeast-starter-batch you brew: IMLE you don't want to mash this brew too low...if you do it's likely to be too dry/thin because these yeasts can be fairly good attenuators. I'll likely mash mine quite high for a wort with low fermentability.

 

[mmb]

So, is there a "locked" recipe for the 10-10-10 now? We're getting close to brew date and 9-9-9 sampling time....

Also, we'll need a new thread to organize this swap and someone to keep the savages under control.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

So, is there a "locked" recipe for the 10-10-10 now? We're getting close to brew date and 9-9-9 sampling time....

Also, we'll need a new thread to organize this swap and someone to keep the savages under control.

I'm fine with flyangler's proposed recipe. IMO, the actual ingredients potentially make for a great brew...but it's really all about what we do with those ingredients. I think if anyone has a problem with the proposed recipe they should speak up soon.

TBH, I've only brewed three BGSAs and I haven't even tasted two of them so I don't have enough experience in this area. However, here's my thoughts:

The malt bill looks fine to me...again, imo it's all about what the brewer does with them. I get a leetle skeered of adding too much sugar and 3.5# is past my comfort-zone. But I'll be scaling back everything since I'll get better than 70% eff.

50 IBU seems a little high but I've never made a beer as big as this (see next paragraph regarding sweetness). At first I thought dry-hopping would be out of place (I thought these beers were all about the yeast) but the style guideline does say for aroma: "low to moderate alcohol and hop aromas" and "A low to moderate yet distinctive perfumy, floral hop character is often present."

1.010 seems a little low for the FG. But judging from my first BGSA (the only one I've tasted); the alcohol greatly increases the perception of sweetness so maybe that's why Jason is shooting for 1.010 (and 50 IBUs)...or maybe it's just because of the back-to-back '10' in 1.010. My BGSA#1 was OG = 1.088, FG = 1.012, w/ ~26 IBU and it's a little too sweet with not enough hops. Still pretty good though...doesn't taste as alcoholic as it really is.

 

[mmb]

50 IBU seems a little high but I've never made a beer as big as this (see next paragraph regarding sweetness). At first I thought dry-hopping would be out of place (I thought these beers were all about the yeast) but the style guideline does say for aroma: "low to moderate alcohol and hop aromas" and "A low to moderate yet distinctive perfumy, floral hop character is often present."

I'm not too concerned about the IBU count but rather the IBU/SG ratio. For example, my 999 BW brew was OG 1.114 with a FG of 1.020, 9% of the fermentables from table sugar and 99 IBUs. It's a malt bomb. I could see having the IBUs doubled and still not being hoppy enough.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I'm not too concerned about the IBU count but rather the IBU/SG ratio. For example, my 999 BW brew was OG 1.114 with a FG of 1.020, 9% of the fermentables from table sugar and 99 IBUs. It's a malt bomb. I could see having the IBUs doubled and still not being hoppy enough.

I'm with ya. I may go up to 60 IBUs because I want substantial bitterness to balance out all of that malt but I'll keep the late kettle additions to a minimum so it isn't too hoppy in flavor.

 

[HoppyDaze]

what about using 3711 Saison yeast for this? I just brewed a saison this weekend. I really want to have a big starter, but Im not sure that it will be compatible....I would have gone with the belgian strain if I had remember this 10/10/10 brew

 

[Homercidal]

what about using 3711 Saison yeast for this? I just brewed a saison this weekend. I really want to have a big starter, but Im not sure that it will be compatible....I would have gone with the belgian strain if I had remember this 10/10/10 brew

Good question. I was thinking about brewing a Wit or Saison, and if the Saison would be a good starter beer, then I'll go that route, and pass on the mega brew, and follow up with this BGSA instead. Then maybe do a very small Mega beer in a 1-2 gallon batch.

This is going to be fun!

 

[Gremlyn]

I'm starting to think maybe WLP568 would be interesting to try for this one.

Can we get flyangler to weigh in on the change from 13.5 lbs to 17.5 lbs? That makes this brew go from just about manageable in a full batch to impossible for anything more than 2.5 gal for me My calculations are giving me 1.1 with just the grain, thought we were shooting for that after the sugar addition?

Using BeerCalculus, I get 1.100 on the nose at 70% efficiency with:

13.5# Pils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Wheat
3# Cane Sugar

 

[Homercidal]

Personally, I think we need to post the recipe again, to include any possible changes, and to make sure we are all on the same page on this. I'm also wondering about the grain increase. Is it just to get up to 1.100?

 

[camiller]

In theory I could scale this up to a 8.5 gallon batch with my existing mash tun (assuming the grain bill in post 262 holds and 1.25qt/lb of mash water) If I make the mash 1qt/lb I could manage a 10 gallon batch. I know having a thicker mash often reduces efficiency though. I've never had to resort to a extra thick mash, any thoughts on how it would impact efficiency?

Say flyangler, are you going to post up a full beer tools pro report like your first one in post 148 for the revised grain bill? I think with the changes and discussions about percentages some folks (myself included) are looking for something to point at and know that is the final recipe. It also probably wouldn't hurt to post up a partial mash version for the PMers.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm starting to think maybe WLP568 would be interesting to try for this one.

Can we get flyangler to weigh in on the change from 13.5 lbs to 17.5 lbs? That makes this brew go from just about manageable in a full batch to impossible for anything more than 2.5 gal for me My calculations are giving me 1.1 with just the grain, thought we were shooting for that after the sugar addition?

Using BeerCalculus, I get 1.100 on the nose at 70% efficiency with:

13.5# Pils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Wheat
3# Cane Sugar

I see now the increase in grain is to counter the efficiency expectations to a more realistic level.

 

[Gremlyn]

70% isn't realistic for this? With the above recipe, I can just fit in in my mash tun at 1 qt/lbs. I figured on being a little creative with the mash process and do a partial infusion 1/2 way through the mash (not the first rest), by draining out about 3/4 to 1 gallon and replacing it with fresh H2O. I need to look for more info on what exactly the enzymes are doing though. I don't want to drain out solubilised proteins that needed for the mash during the mash.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

And it also greatly depends on your volume, we should always post the volume when posting these grain bills and intended OG...the volume is as important as the other info. Flyangler's latest posted recipe was at the following volume:

5 gallons finished product in packaging; for my system, it's 8 gallons preboil down to 6 at the end with 5.5 going into the carboy.

camiller - the earlier posted recipe assumed 80% efficiency. With a beer this big, 70% is more realistic.

I've also adjusted attenuation, given the more fermentable wort and sugar feedings.

Since I just brewed a Bock with 14.5# of grain I have a pretty good idea of the efficiency I'll get. My batch size will only be 5.25 gal. into-the-fermenter (fly's was 5.5).

I prefer the % way of sharing recipes. I like when they just give the % of each malt/adjunct and the intended OG and let each brewer figure out exactly how much grain they need based on their system and exact volume.

So it looks like its (rounded off and not including the sugar):
94% Pils
3% Munich
3% Wheat

I decided that 2.5# sugar was the amount I was going to use; so I subtracted the gravity of that 2.5# sugar from 1.100 (in 5.25 gal of course) and that told me what my target OG (just from the grain) should be...which turned out to be about 1.078-1.079. When I brew it that will be my target OG into the fermenter...with the sugar getting added later. But everybody should figure all this stuff out for their system/recipe...it will be different for everybody.

EDIT: and to make it even more simple...I would likely use 1/2# each of Munich/Wheat and then adjust the amount of Pils malt to hit my target OG. I don't see a need to scale the Munich/Wheat just to end up with .57467990129 pounds of each...1/2# is fine (or 10 oz if you're expecting 70% efficiency).

 

[flyangler18]

Here's a completely off-kilter version (and a departure from the original in some ways); do with it as you may.

I'm calling it a Belgian Specialty Ale to deal with the color problem.

For those following along, use the earlier referenced 10 oz wheat and 10 oz Munich; I may do two batches just for S&G.

Due to an oversight, the grainbill has been adjusted. I failed to take the sugar feeding into consideration and the amounts were inflated.

[SIZE=+2]Devil May Cry (10.10.10 Edition)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]16-E Belgian Specialty Ale[/SIZE]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 3/30/09



Size: 6.0 gal
Efficiency: 70%
Attenuation: 90%
Calories: 328.05 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.100 (1.026 - 1.120)
|====================#===========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (0.995 - 1.035)
|=============#==================|
Color: 8.79 (1.0 - 50.0)
|==========#=====================|
Alcohol: 11.92% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|====================#===========|
Bitterness: 51.8 (0.0 - 100.0)
|================#===============|

[SIZE=+1]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
13.5 lb Pilsner Malt
2.5 lb Belgian Munich
2.5 lb White Wheat Malt
3.0 lb White Table Sugar (Sucrose)
1.0 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
1 oz Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
1 oz Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min

[SIZE=+1]Schedule:[/SIZE]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 0.0 m

00:03:00 Dough In - Liquor: 5.89 gal; Strike: 161.97 °F; Target: 149 °F
01:33:00 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 90 min; Final: 147.3 °F
02:03:00 Lautering - First Runnings: 0.0 gal sparge @ 145 °F, 10 min; Sparge #1: 1.87 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 10.0 min; Sparge #2: 1.87 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 10.0 min; Total Runoff: 7.61 gal

[SIZE=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.3[/SIZE]

 

[mmb]

70% isn't realistic for this? With the above recipe, I can just fit in in my mash tun at 1 qt/lbs. I figured on being a little creative with the mash process and do a partial infusion 1/2 way through the mash (not the first rest), by draining out about 3/4 to 1 gallon and replacing it with fresh H2O. I need to look for more info on what exactly the enzymes are doing though. I don't want to drain out solubilised proteins that needed for the mash during the mash.

It's pretty standard on these BIG beers to take a 10 point hit on your efficiency percentage. My standard 78% went to 68% on a 1.114 beer, with standard 1.25qts to 1 lb grain.

Of course, I was shooting for 65%....

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

That's quite a bit different from the last version...way more Munich and Wheat. Not that I was set on anything...I'm easy. Whatever we decide will be fine...as I said...it's really not about a simple recipe...it's about what you do with it.

EDIT: Oh, I'm def doing two batches.:rockin:

 

[Gremlyn]

Wow, you really bumped the Munich and Wheat. I'm good with that recipe, I think I can make something work for a full batch. I guess if my creative mashing doesn't work well, there is always DME

Are we purposely leaving the yeast selection up to interpretation?

 

[flyangler18]

That's quite a bit different from the last version...way more Munich and Wheat. Not that I was set on anything...I'm easy. Whatever we decide will be fine...as I said...it's really not about a simple recipe...it's about what you do with it.

Yeah, it's definitely different - I'm in an experimental mood.

Figure out your system to hit the numbers you need, all!

I think I'll do this suped up version (bigger on the wheat and Munich) as well as the 94% Pils/3% Wheat/3% Munich. Just couldn't get the numbers where I wanted them to approximate the percentages. Oh well.

 

[flyangler18]

Are we purposely leaving the yeast selection up to interpretation?

I'm using the Golden Flanders PC release, but I also really like 570 for a beer of this sort.

 

[Saccharomyces]

My Tripel Six had a similar % of Munich, the color is a bit dark for a tripel mostly due to the turbinado I used (I didn't realize how dark that stuff is until it was already too late) but it didn't push it too far out of style. It came out really great, so I don't think your % will be too much at all. <-- referring to post #294

I literally have a pile of flaked wheat so I will use it instead of malted wheat.

 

[Homercidal]

Was just listening to the Jamil Show and noted that they said this beer would be carbed to like 4 volumes. They indicated that some of the thinner bottles might not be able to handle the pressure and recommended using thick bottles like 750ml bottles, maybe even with a cork and cage. Any thoughts on that?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Good question Homer. How high can you safely go in regular bottles?

 

[mmb]

Was just listening to the Jamil Show and noted that they said this beer would be carbed to like 4 volumes. They indicated that some of the thinner bottles might not be able to handle the pressure and recommended using thick bottles like 750ml bottles, maybe even with a cork and cage. Any thoughts on that?

I'm pestering the owner of the specialty beer store I buy from to save any belgian bottles that come in as returns. I've a good collection so far for 10 cents a bottle.

I'll definitely be caging and corking these for the swap. Chances are I'll bottle condition as well.

 

[Homercidal]

There was a brief discussion about someone sending large bottles for the last epic beer, so I wondered if this might be a problem for the 10-10-10 as well. I personally would not have a problem using the larger bottles. I have a few now, and with good reason, I could easily see myself getting some more!

I've been wanting to use a corked bottle for some time now, just could never talk myself into doing it for the beers I've brewed so far.

I also have some larger bottles that look thick, and take a regular cap. And some swingtops that look pretty stout.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

My only problem with larger bottles is...it's gonna be ~11% alcohol.

 

[Kelsch]

My only problem with larger bottles is...it's gonna be ~11% alcohol.

Then, share!

 

[wildwest450]

Won't that ounce of Goldings at flameout be wasted? I've had flameout addition only beers(no dryhopping) that will lose 80% of their aroma after 4 to 5 months.

 

[mmb]

Some hop flavor/aroma hangs around for a while. Just have to plan ahead when deciding how you do the recipe, I suppose. *shrug*

 

[Gremlyn]

There was a brief discussion about someone sending large bottles for the last epic beer, so I wondered if this might be a problem for the 10-10-10 as well. I personally would not have a problem using the larger bottles. I have a few now, and with good reason, I could easily see myself getting some more!

I've been wanting to use a corked bottle for some time now, just could never talk myself into doing it for the beers I've brewed so far.

I also have some larger bottles that look thick, and take a regular cap. And some swingtops that look pretty stout.

Oh, didn't even think about that... Bombers won't be up to snuff, eh?

 

[Saccharomyces]

Well you can always use standard bottles and carb to 3 volumes. I'll probably bottle half in 12oz bottles at 3 volumes and put the other half in Belgian bottles with corks and cages at 4-5 volumes like I'm going to do with my Saison.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I'm loving all this discussion and am getting super psyched. So is the final recipe set? Can we get a decisive post on that saying "THIS IS THE RECIPE AND GUIDELINES"?

 

[jacksonbrown]

Also, are there any guidelines for fermenting a Belgian? I've never brewed one and would believe there's an ideal temp range, yes?

 

[Gremlyn]

The ideal temp range is whatever your yeast says it is, and you get to pick your favourite yeast for the style.

 

[Roman Brewer]

Hey all,

Haven't participated in the thread, but I've been following. When it comes time to start trading next Sept/Oct, what is the process. Does everyone who wants to participate get put on some master list somewhere, and then told who to send their sixers to? I guess what I mean to say is, where and when do I register?

Cheers.

Roman

 

[JediJoel]

Yes, an official "THIS IS THE 10-10-10 RECIPE" post would be appreciated with guidelines and yeast options (I know a few were thrown out there).

I think I might convert the official to a partial and try my hand at the 10-10-10 since I have a Belgian Strong on deck.

 

[KingBrianI]

So what brewery is this Wyeast Flander's Golden Ale supposed to be from? The smell it is giving off during the fermentation of the belgian pale I'm making to step up the yeast is the most wonderful smell I've experienced yet during a fermentation. It's perfumy, floral, a bit fruity, sweet and clean. I love it. Hopefully it makes it through to the final product. I'd like to try a beer from this brewery to see what kind of flavors and aromas it lends to the beer. By the way, I've been fermenting it at 66. I'll probably start the 10.10.10 there but let it ramp up into the 70s.

 

[mmb]

Hey all,

Haven't participated in the thread, but I've been following. When it comes time to start trading next Sept/Oct, what is the process. Does everyone who wants to participate get put on some master list somewhere, and then told who to send their sixers to? I guess what I mean to say is, where and when do I register?

Cheers.

Roman

Here are two good threads to read up on how the 09/09/09 is being run..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/09-09-09-barleywine-swap-guidelines-recipe-64150/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/im-thinking-09-09-09-barleywine-past-due-63737/

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

So what brewery is this Wyeast Flander's Golden Ale supposed to be from? The smell it is giving off during the fermentation of the belgian pale I'm making to step up the yeast is the most wonderful smell I've experienced yet during a fermentation. It's perfumy, floral, a bit fruity, sweet and clean. I love it. Hopefully it makes it through to the final product. I'd like to try a beer from this brewery to see what kind of flavors and aromas it lends to the beer. By the way, I've been fermenting it at 66. I'll probably start the 10.10.10 there but let it ramp up into the 70s.

Supposedly Brouwerij Van Steenberge (Gulden Draak, Piraat) in Ertewelde. I know the aroma you're talking about and it is awesome.

 

[KingBrianI]

Supposedly Brouwerij Van Steenberge (Gulden Draak, Piraat) in Ertewelde. I know the aroma you're talking about and it is awesome.

Awesome, I actually just tried both of those for the first time recently. This beer is gonna be good!

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Everybody keeps asking for a definitive, 'final' recipe. So I think we need to state one and then if anyone has any problems with it, speak up now or forever hold your peace.

The latest 'BGSA' recipe was:
94% Pils
3% Munich
3% Wheat malt
approx. 3# cane sugar

1.100 OG
1.010 FG

50 IBU with a decent amount of flavor/aroma hops.
predicted SRM = ~5


The latest 'Belgian Specialty Ale' recipe was:
73% Pils
13.5% Munich
13.5% Wheat malt
approx. 3# cane sugar

1.100 OG
1.010 FG

52 IBU with some flavor/aroma hops
predicted SRM = ~8.75

Is there a preference between these two?
I slightly prefer the 'BGSA' recipe just because I keep reading that these brews are all about Pils/yeast. However, we are already out of the style guideline so I can understand the desire to further deviate.