1 Vessel Electric Brewing

[johnwpowell]

I'm looking to switch to electric and want to understand why single vessel setups are referred to as BIAB. I currently have 2 coolers, a 15 gallon kettle, 2 chugger pumps, a plate chiller and a propane burner. I heat my water in the kettle and use it for mash and sparge water. I do pretty good hitting temps using BeerSmith calculations.

I have a decent amount of investment already and would prefer to retrofit what I have for electric brewing. I've looked at just about all the controller options and something like the SSBrewtech 1V would do the job for my setup.

Why does it seem that there is this divide on controllers like if you only heat 1 vessel, you must be doing BIAB? I want to make sure I'm not missing something. Should I buy the more capable controller because sooner or later I'll want to add more vessels? If anything I'd be leaning to an all in one setup rather than expanding so I can keep brewing when I'm old and in the retirement home.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's just catering to a trend. Most people running 3 vessel electric systems use a heatable hlt so it can house a herms coil. If you are happy with just making the boil kettle electric, any single vessel controller will do. Look at the auberins.com cube controller.

 

[sicktght311]

BIAB = Brew In a Bag. You fill the entire single electric vessel with your strike and sparge volumes all at once, heat to strike temp, put in a paint strainer bag, mesh basket, or custom mesh bag, pour your grains in and then use a single PID controller to maintain mash temperature through the mash while constantly recirculating from bottom to top with a pump. Then when the mash is over, you lift the bag containing the grains out of the kettle, let it drain leaving the wort behind, boil, and done.

Single vessel is always refferred to as BIAB because ultimately thats the only way to have a brew day with a single vessel (if you're not counting coolers).

If you have a 15 gallon kettle, and a cooler, dont dont want to move to mash bags and BIAB, your better bet is to retrofit your kettle with an electric element, a simple single pid controller to raise your strike water to temp, mash in your cooler as you usually do, xfer the sparge water over to a second cooler in anticipation of the sparge, drain your mash cooler back into your kettle, sparge from the 2nd cooler, collect your final runnings, then run the element and bring the kettle to a boil.

 

[kevin58]

The video is a sales pitch for their product but it does describe the BIAB process quite succinctly...

 

[McKnuckle]

In the case of that video, BIAB = Brew in a Basket. (which is accurate)

 

[LittleRiver]

BIAB = Brew In a Bag..... use a single PID controller to maintain mash temperature through the mash while constantly recirculating from bottom to top with a pump...

PID controllers and recirculating pumps are not necessarily part of a BIAB rig.

Recirculation pumps seem to be standard on most commercially available "systems", but you don't need need them to achieve great efficiency and great tasting beer.

 

[johnwpowell]

Oh I mean I know what BIAB is, just saying surely I’m not the only one who brews with a single vessel and coolers and NOT doing BIAB

 

[Franktalk]

No, you're not the only one. I have an electric kettle and two coolers. I use a Blichmann modular 240 volt power controller. It simply controls the heating element from 0 -100%. Easy peasy.

 

[Bobby_M]

Oh I mean I know what BIAB is, just saying surely I’m not the only one who brews with a single vessel and coolers and NOT doing BIAB

It's just terminology misunderstanding. See, you're brewing on a 3-vessel system but you're only heating one of them. It's not what I'd call an antiquated system, but there are definitely fewer people doing it. All these BIAB controllers would be more appropriately called "single vessel controllers". In other words, they are designed to regulate one element installed in one pot whether that pot is part of a 3-vessel system or a single vessel BIAB system.

The SS V1 controller is overpriced for what it does.

$495 for this one: https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Brewery-Controller-Electric-Wort-Hog-EBC-130-272p5041.htm

$475 for this one: https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_65&products_id=770

Both of those have a better "brain" than the SS V1.

 

[doug293cz]

Oh I mean I know what BIAB is, just saying surely I’m not the only one who brews with a single vessel and coolers and NOT doing BIAB

Except that the two coolers are "vessels", so you are doing 3 vessel brewing. Doesn't need to be metal or have heating ability to be a vessel.

It would be correct to say you are doing one heater brewing.

Brew on

 

[Waunabeer]

The SS V1 controller is overpriced for what it does.

$495 for this one: https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Brewery-Controller-Electric-Wort-Hog-EBC-130-272p5041.htm

$475 for this one: https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_65&products_id=770

Both of those have a better "brain" than the SS V1.[/QUOTE]

You say overpriced and a better "brain" than the SS V1, but neither of those other options are SSVR capable, which means the "bag" in BIAB would have to be protected and/or not come into contact with the heating element. Another negative is with the protruding temp probes on the other two brands. It is another kink in the works if the bag is punctured by them. Also, the other two brands mentioned both require an input power cord and an output power cord, whereas the SS 1V version has integrated input/output power cords and looks cleaner. Now add the needed components to make them comparable and add shipping and the cost difference is much less.

Plus, the Wort Hog controller has a disclaimer at the bottom of their page stating: "Caution:
Careless operation can result in serious injury or death. This equipment is sold as experimental kit. It is not a UL approved consumer electronic device.
High Gravity assumes no responsibility for any damages caused by operation of this system."
That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I for one think the <$100 price difference is worth it for the SS version of a 1V controller, if doing BIAB. That's my $0.02.

 

[NewJersey]

yeah i got the 1v kit and definitley coulda cobbled together something as/more capable for less, but i like the design, asthetic, AND function so i bought it. some might not care about looks/design of the product and that's fine too.

 

[doug293cz]

You say overpriced and a better "brain" than the SS V1, but neither of those other options are SSVR capable, which means the "bag" in BIAB would have to be protected and/or not come into contact with the heating element. Another negative is with the protruding temp probes on the other two brands. It is another kink in the works if the bag is punctured by them. Also, the other two brands mentioned both require an input power cord and an output power cord, whereas the SS 1V version has integrated input/output power cords and looks cleaner. Now add the needed components to make them comparable and add shipping and the cost difference is much less.

Plus, the Wort Hog controller has a disclaimer at the bottom of their page stating: "Caution:
Careless operation can result in serious injury or death. This equipment is sold as experimental kit. It is not a UL approved consumer electronic device.
High Gravity assumes no responsibility for any damages caused by operation of this system."
That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I for one think the <$100 price difference is worth it for the SS version of a 1V controller, if doing BIAB. That's my $0.02.

I would like to see a tear down, or component list, to verify that the SS 1V controller actually uses an SSVR driven by a PID rather than the almost universal SSR driven by a PID. The SSBrewTech controllers are the first I have ever seen that claim PID driven SSVR.

The Auber EZBoil controllers do not use the typical 1 - 2 sec cycle time PWM used by most PID's. They use a unique modulation mode (that I have not seen used by any PID's), where individual whole AC cycles are gated on or off. At 50%, or lower, power the max element on time is 16.7 msec (0.0167 sec), and the minimum off time between power pulses is 16.7 msec. (For a typical PID at 1 sec cycle time, the element is on for 500 msec at 50% power.) So, the surface temp of an element is not going to be significantly hotter than for an SSVR controlled element at the same power settings. The EZBoils also have a simple to use knob for boil power setting.

And, about the power cords: The SS 1V requires two power feeds, one for 240V and one for 120V. This might be attractive to folks who only have a three wire dryer outlet available, and don't have the option to rewire it to four wires. But, many might find the requirement for a second outlet off putting. The integrated power cords are also too short to reach anything, so three extension cords are required in order to use the unit. DIY units can have integrated power cords of whatever length the brewer needs.

The temp probe argument is a red herring. Whether or not the probe is a snagging risk depends on where the probe is placed in the kettle or recirc loop. It has nothing to do with the design of the controller.

The safety warning is also a red herring. I know of no controllers that are UL listed. There are some that use UL rated components, but that does not make the assembled unit UL rated. Read the instruction manual of any line voltage operated electrical appliance. You will find all kinds of scary warnings in the first couple of pages.

Brew on

 

[Waunabeer]

I've never eaten red herring, but I sure love red snapper. cheers

 

[Bobby_M]

You say overpriced and a better "brain" than the SS V1, but neither of those other options are SSVR capable, which means the "bag" in BIAB would have to be protected and/or not come into contact with the heating element. Another negative is with the protruding temp probes on the other two brands. It is another kink in the works if the bag is punctured by them. Also, the other two brands mentioned both require an input power cord and an output power cord, whereas the SS 1V version has integrated input/output power cords and looks cleaner. Now add the needed components to make them comparable and add shipping and the cost difference is much less.

Plus, the Wort Hog controller has a disclaimer at the bottom of their page stating: "Caution:
Careless operation can result in serious injury or death. This equipment is sold as experimental kit. It is not a UL approved consumer electronic device.
High Gravity assumes no responsibility for any damages caused by operation of this system."
That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I for one think the <$100 price difference is worth it for the SS version of a 1V controller, if doing BIAB. That's my $0.02.

I've been doing this electric thing for 5+ years and have built controllers using several different PID designs as well as the Auber EZboils starting from the DSPR1 and up as they've gone through updates. I know what I'm talking about.

No one has opened up the SSV1 controller to verify exactly what they are doing but given the knob on the side of the box, I can speculate that when you switch over to the manual control, the element is actually routed through an SSVR and that knob is the pot for it.

I don't know how to emphasize this anymore than to say that is NOT an improvement over what the EZboil does for boil control. It's not even close. An SSVR is like a Timex while the EZboil's boil functionality is like a ROLEX. Do yourself a favor and read carefully when about a dozen people who have used and understand both devices agree with this statement.

If you don't want to listen, buy what you want... it will all heat up water.

 

[NewJersey]

I've been doing this electric thing for 5+ years and have built controllers using several different PID designs as well as the Auber EZboils starting from the DSPR1 and up as they've gone through updates. I know what I'm talking about.

No one has opened up the SSV1 controller to verify exactly what they are doing but given the knob on the side of the box, I can speculate that when you switch over to the manual control, the element is actually routed through an SSVR and that knob is the pot for it.

I don't know how to emphasize this anymore than to say that is NOT an improvement over what the EZboil does for boil control. It's not even close. An SSVR is like a Timex while the EZboil's boil functionality is like a ROLEX. Do yourself a favor and read carefully when about a dozen people who have used and understand both devices agree with this statement.

If you don't want to listen, buy what you want... it will all heat up water.

please dumb this down for me. i own an ssv1 and would like to understand.
how is the ezboil better than the omron in the 1v?

 

[doug293cz]

please dumb this down for me. i own an ssv1 and would like to understand.
how is the ezboil better than the omron in the 1v?

What kind of documentation came with the SS 1V? Any circuit diagrams or component lists in the docs? Like to know what is the exact and full model number for the PID and SSR/SSVR. Can you open up the panel without voiding the warranty? If so some general internal pics of the wiring, and close ups of the data stickers on the PID and SSR/SSVR would be nice.

Brew on

 

[zeptrey]

The SS V1 controller is overpriced for what it does.

$495 for this one: https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Brewery-Controller-Electric-Wort-Hog-EBC-130-272p5041.htm

$475 for this one: https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64_65&products_id=770

Both of those have a better "brain" than the SS V1.

You say overpriced and a better "brain" than the SS V1, but neither of those other options are SSVR capable, which means the "bag" in BIAB would have to be protected and/or not come into contact with the heating element. Another negative is with the protruding temp probes on the other two brands. It is another kink in the works if the bag is punctured by them. Also, the other two brands mentioned both require an input power cord and an output power cord, whereas the SS 1V version has integrated input/output power cords and looks cleaner. Now add the needed components to make them comparable and add shipping and the cost difference is much less.

Plus, the Wort Hog controller has a disclaimer at the bottom of their page stating: "Caution:
Careless operation can result in serious injury or death. This equipment is sold as experimental kit. It is not a UL approved consumer electronic device.
High Gravity assumes no responsibility for any damages caused by operation of this system."
That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I for one think the <$100 price difference is worth it for the SS version of a 1V controller, if doing BIAB. That's my $0.02. [/QUOTE]

I'm sure this goes for all electric systems...just saying. Get a spa panel or certified electrician to install a gfci breaker installed for your controller to give you a little comfort. I mean for your propane burners there are probably similar warnings...don't huff fumes...or catch crap on fire..yadda.

 

[Bobby_M]

please dumb this down for me. i own an ssv1 and would like to understand.
how is the ezboil better than the omron in the 1v?

Since the SS controller is so new, I have to use my best judgement as to how it works and how it's built but since there is a knob on the side and the auto/manual switch is outside the square "brain" unit, I'm 99% sure that there is a standard SSR in there controlled by the PID and an SSVR controlled by the knob/pot. When you have it in auto, the element is fired by the PID/SSR. When you switch to manual, the element is controlled by the SSVR which provides a nearly linear control of output power. I also assume the PID will continue to show temperature passively when it's in manual mode. I also assume that the PID does nothing else when it's in manual mode.

The EZ boil does all that but in a better way with more useful features. When the unit is in mash mode, it's similar to the SS unit. You set a temperature and it holds it. That temp is input with the knob on the front and I find it to be easier and more intuitive than button pressing. When you hit your set temp, it sounds an alarm and can also start an internal timer. After the timer ends, you can have it shut off power if you want. The DSPR-3xx series can also do automatic step mashes since it has multi timers. You can also use it to delay water heating for hours such as overnight.

When you switch to boil mode internal to the ezboil, it has a boil acceleration mode. In my case, I have it run the element at 100% output until it reaches 207F. When it hits that temp, it sounds the alarm and turns the power down to 60% output which is my normal boil intensity. It also starts the boil timer when it hits 211F. These are all things you'll do with the SS controller but you have to be sitting there watching it. After I pull the grain, I launch boil mode and I can literally walk away and get distracted and it will never boil over. The real time boil intensity is also controlled by the front knob and the digital display will show you the % output in 1% increments. The output is also perfectly linear whereas SSVR control is not. This is not a point that I would hang my hat on. It's all the other functionality that makes it objectively better.

Given that it has all those extra functions, AND it's cheaper, makes it a wise choice. Whether a given brewer would care about those differences is a different story. You already own the SS so it's sunk. I wouldn't sell it to switch out but if someone doesn't have a controller and they are currently shopping, use this info as you wish.

 

[Lager_Goggles]

I bought one of the DSPR-320's from Auberins and after playing around with it and running an IPA this last weekend I'm very satisfied with it.