Can I do this/Should I do this

I got a clone recipe book for Christmas and thought I'd try my first lager - a doppelbock. Doubled a 2000ml starter.....everything went perfectly - until I took my first preboil gravity reading - not even close. Recipe said it should be near 7 - it was at 3. Added 1.7# of light DME (all I had)that brought the POST BOIL to exactly 5. Pitched the yeast; it's sitting at 55degF chugging away. Checked the grain bill against a calculator (of course after the fact) and it told me that OG should be about 5.5.....this sucks.
So.......I'm afraid that the hops are going to over power this...so Id like to mash 5lbs of 2row in a bag for an hour - boil it - cool it - and add it to the already fermenting wort. Should I do this now, should I wait for the fermentation to slow and then restart with more wort, or should I do nothing?
Here is the grain bill:
10# GermanCara Helles
1# German Vienna
1# Munich (Weyerman)
.5# Caravienna
.5# Crystal(40)
.86 oz Tetnang @ 90
1.6oz Hallertau @60
1.8oz Spalt @ 45
Double 2000ml starter of WLP833
Mash at 152 for 90 min - Boil for for 90min - Chill to 62 - ferment for 14 days at 55degF
Finished ABV is supposed to be 7.6%

Something is very wrong. If you are reading the recipe calling for 7 brix, the recipe is worthless. 7 brix is 1.028 SG. I think it should be closer to 10 brix.

With that grainbill I would expect much higher. I suspect that you have a terrible crush on the grain. Or you ended up with a lot more wort than the recipe was designed for.

As to the fix, I would try that. Or you will have a beer that is like a watered down Bud Light.

What method are you using to measure gravity? If it's specific gravity, those numbers don't make sense.

If it's BRIX, a "3" corresponds to a specific gravity of about 1.012--which would be finished, more or less. A "7" corresponds to about 1.028, which is a very light beer to begin with.

How are you measuring that?

Sorry, Im using SG. The 3 was 1.032 - the 7 is supposed to be 1.076
Checked it twice with a refractometer then pulled a post boil sample - let it cool to room temp and checked it with a hydrometer. 1.050 is post boil and cooled.

DNKDUKE said:

Sorry, Im using SG. The 3 was 1.032 - the 7 is supposed to be 1.076
Checked it twice with a refractometer then pulled a post boil sample - let it cool to room temp and checked it with a hydrometer. 1.050 is post boil and cooled.

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Did you really use 11 pounds of CaraHell? That would be the reason right there- that's a cara/crystal malt and not a base malt.

If that typo is in the book, that's terrible.

Were the grains crushed at all?

Something is definitely very wrong here. Is this for a 5 or 10 gallon batch?

If you have an OG of 5 brix (1.020), you'll end up with a beer of roughly 2% ABV. Even with the target of 7 brix, you'll be lucky to hit 3% ABV.

With an OG of 1.020, your brewhouse efficiency is 22% for a five gallon batch, or 44% for a ten gallon batch. These are nearly unfathomable numbers. Did you forget to crush? Did you misread your hydrometer/refractometer?


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EDIT: I took awhile to post this and missed the followup posts. With an OG of 1.050, you have a brewhouse efficiency of 55%. This isn't good, but at least it's within the realm of a normal reading.

Personally, I'd probably just let this one ride and see what you get. Chances are that it'll still be a good beer, even if it's not what you were going for.

As an aside, whenever you're posting questions here, it's best to be specific and stick to accepted nomenclature. When you say 3, 5, and 7, you know what you mean, but we're all left guessing.

Yooper said:

Did you really use 11 pounds of CaraHell? That would be the reason right there- that's a cara/crystal malt and not a base malt.

If that typo is in the book, that's terrible.

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Not a typo - not in the book - I chose this - YIKES
So what if any is the solution?

myndflyte said:

Were the grains crushed at all?

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no...............sorry...yes (edited)

The book called for a lager malt. For what ever reason that I cannot think of ANY, I chose 10# of the Cara
Should I add wort or not?
this is going to taste like what?

DNKDUKE said:

Not a typo - not in the book - I chose this - YIKES
So what if any is the solution?

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I missed that your "base" malt was a crystal type of malt. This will leave a lot of unfermentable sugars in your beer, and I fear that your final product will be cloyingly sweet.

DNKDUKE said:

no

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I'm shocked that you were able to get 55% efficiency with such low diastatic power malts and without crushing.

Is this your first AG beer?

DNKDUKE said:

The book called for a lager malt. For what ever reason that I cannot think of ANY, I chose 10# of the Cara
Should I add wort or not?
this is going to taste like what?

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Oh, man. Uncrushed grain, and a recipe made up of no base malt? I'm afraid it's for the trash bin.

But, yeast is expensive. I'd probably let it ferment out, and in the meantime buy new ingredients and start over and see if the yeast could be salvaged for the new batch. But I'm a cheapo, and would try to save something out of this. The beer will not be drinkable. So I'd try to save the yeast at least.

I really think the whole thing needs a do-over, and is a total loss, though.

I don't think I'd throw more good money after bad.

max384 said:

I missed that your "base" malt was a crystal type of malt. This will leave a lot of unfermentable sugars in your beer, and I fear that your final product will be cloyingly sweet.



I'm shocked that you were able to get 55% efficiency with such low diastatic power malts and without crushing.

Is this your first AG beer?

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Not my first and I DID crush

Yooper said:

Oh, man. Uncrushed grain, and a recipe made up of no base malt? I'm afraid it's for the trash bin.

But, yeast is expensive. I'd probably let it ferment out, and in the meantime buy new ingredients and start over and see if the yeast could be salvaged for the new batch. But I'm a cheapo, and would try to save something out of this. The beer will not be drinkable. So I'd try to save the yeast at least.

I really think the whole thing needs a do-over, and is a total loss, though.

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The grain was crushed...did I mis speak. I crushed the grain.
I have plenty of 2 row should I seriously not try my idea?

DNKDUKE said:

The grain was crushed...did I mis speak. I crushed the grain.
I have plenty of 2 row should I seriously not try my idea?

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I wouldn't. You want a max of maybe 12% crystal in that beer. With 11 pounds of crystal, you could add like 100 pounds of two row and it may turn out somewhat drinkable. But then you'd add water, so, you'd have to add more two-row, etc. You have some DME in there, but not nearly enough to counteract the massive amount of crystal.

It's like adding 5 pounds of salt to a soup, I'd think.

I am a "never say die" kind of person, but I think this one is killed.

Yooper said:

I wouldn't. You want a max of maybe 12% crystal in that beer. With 11 pounds of crystal, you could add like 100 pounds of two row and it may turn out somewhat drinkable. But then you'd add water, so, you'd have to add more two-row, etc. You have some DME in there, but not nearly enough to counteract the massive amount of crystal.

It's like adding 5 pounds of salt to a soup, I'd think.

I am a "never say die" kind of person, but I think this one is killed.

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Thanks Yooper. Your opinion is very respected here. I will try to save the yeast.

max384 said:

Is this your first AG beer?

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No about my 25th.
(hands on face, shaking head in embarrassment)

DNKDUKE said:

No about my 25th.
(hands on face, shaking head in embarrassment)

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Hahaha. No worries. I made a boneheaded similar mistake on about my 50th (75th?) batch a couple of years ago. I made a barleywine with like 30% crystal malt. I couldn't get the gravity below 1.038, and it was disgustingly sweet and simply undrinkable. It happens.

Regardless, I'd still let it ferment out and at least try it. If it's bad, at least you've got the yeast, as Yooper pointed out.

I just ordered new ingredients for this dopplebock...at least I'll have enough yeast.
I may take some of the beer and put in a couple of growlers to use as a base for marinade. SWMBO and I do sausage, peppers, and onions in a beer base...it's very good.
Thanks everyone for the input.

Finish the beer and taste it, you might be surprised. If it's terrible chalk it up to learning on the job.

For future reference, you would expect to get 35-37 gravity points per pound of grain before you account for your mash efficiency. So if you get a 75% efficiency this recipe should have yielded 341 gravity points into 5 gallons or about 1.068 OG. Back calculating with your FG number and the added DME says that you were down around 50% efficiency.

So something went wrong in the grind, mash, or sparge. Did you taste the spent grain to see if it was sweet? Did you stop sparging too early?

As far as what you'll get, you'll have to tell us when it's done. don't know how to predict the results right now.

In the words of the immortal Charlie Papazian - "Relax and have a homebrew!"

John Eberly said:

Finish the beer and taste it, you might be surprised. If it's terrible chalk it up to learning on the job.

For future reference, you would expect to get 35-37 gravity points per pound of grain before you account for your mash efficiency. So if you get a 75% efficiency this recipe should have yielded 341 gravity points into 5 gallons or about 1.068 OG. Back calculating with your FG number and the added DME says that you were down around 50% efficiency.

So something went wrong in the grind, mash, or sparge. Did you taste the spent grain to see if it was sweet? Did you stop sparging too early?

As far as what you'll get, you'll have to tell us when it's done. don't know how to predict the results right now.

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Yah it pretty much sucked just like predicted. Tried to harvest the yeast but got a ton of hops.....probably didnt swirl enough... anyway....
Just started a new starter and will brew this Friday or Saturday after building up 2000ml again.
Changed out the base grain to AiH Pilot House Pilsner ...if this malt sucks please don't tell me....just kidding, has anyone used this grain?