Accidentally only steeped flaked wheat

I made a PM honey wheat the other day that called for mashing 1# honey malt and 1.5# flaked wheat. I mashed only the honey malt for 60 min, then added some water and LME and started the boil. Then I realized I forgot the flaked wheat and steeped it for 45 min, then added to the boil. Since the starches weren't converted, will there be any problem?

The problem is you probably won't have the gravity you were looking for. Not sure if you would lose a significant amount of flavor.

If the flaked wheat is properly mashed, does it add fermentable sugar or only dextrin for mouthfeel/body?

Flaked wheat is supposed to be cooked and rolled flat. Ready for the enzymes to do their thing. So it *should* be added to the mash so the enzymes from the malt can go git it.

The enzymes break down the starches into fermentable sugars.

Awesome, thanks!

I'm a bit confused with this recipe....

A little research tells me honey malt has enough diastatic power to self convert, yet not enough to convert adjuncts, to mash a pound of honey
malt with a pound and a half of flaked wheat seems odd imo???

wilserbrewer said:

I'm a bit confused with this recipe....

A little research tells me home malt has enough diastatic power to self convert yet not enough to convert adjuncts, to mash pound honey
malt with a pound and a half of flaked wheat seems odd imo???

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Yes, I think the recipe is flawed if that is the case. Honey malt wouldn't have enough diastatic power to convert the flaked wheat. Some base malt would have to be used.

In any case, the flaked wheat will probably give some starch haze but it should still be ok in the end.

I converted an AG recipe to PM using the link below. In the future, what should I mash?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=95236

From what I gather Honey Malt is not diastatic, and given the color, 20°L, I don't think we should expect it to be either. It falls in the same category as Brumalt and Melanoidin Malt, and although different, it is actually quite similar. I feel I get more Honey flavor from Honey Malt than from adding 2x the amount of Honey toward the end of the primary or in a secondary.

The flaked wheat should be mashed. Ideally, the Honey Malt should be mashed too, but can probably be steeped. Depending on how much flaked wheat and Honey Malt you use in your PM recipe, use enough (2-row) Barley Malt or Wheat Malt to have a minimal diastatic power of 30-35 °Lintner for your PM grist mix to convert completely. Rather err on the higher side.

For a "real" wheat beer, you should use around 50% wheat in the form of malt and/or flakes. Use of a decent percentage of flakes is traditional, and gives the beer more of a raw wheat flavor. The original AG recipe does all that, and includes Vienna for a toastier flavor and slightly darker color.

To attain the high % wheat with your PM, you can use Wheat DME, which is 50-65% Wheat and 50-35% Barley depending on the maltster.

I'm gonna give it a shot.

Here's an example of converting the original AG to a PM, while increasing the amount of Honey Malt from .5 lb to 1 lb, as you did in your recipe.

Original Recipe:
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.00 %
3 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 30.00 %
1.5 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 15.00 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %

OG 1.058
Color 5.3 SRM

Partial Mash Recipe #1:
1.5 lb Wheat Malt (Red or White) 2.5L
1.0 lb Honey Malt 20L
1.0 lb Flaked Wheat 1.7L
0.5 lb Dark Munich 20L
3.0 lb Bavarian Wheat DME (Briess, 65% Wheat + 35% Barley) 3L
1.5 lb Pilsen Light DME (Briess) 2L

Partial Mash Efficiency 80%
OG 1.058
Color 6.5 SRM*

Notes:
*The color of the PM recipe calculates 1.2 SRM points (23%) darker than the original. Not much you can do about that. Adding all the extract at the end of the boil (5 minutes left) prevents extra darkening, and provides for a fresher taste.

Process:
Perform a Partial Mash with the (first) 4 grains for 1 hour at 154F. For that you'll need the capacity to do a partial mash of 4 pounds of grain in 6 quarts of water. That's quite a lot. You need at least a 3 gallon pot or vessel for that or split over 2 smaller ones.

Reducing the Partial Mash amount:
Mash the 1 lb of Flaked Wheat and the 0.5 lb of Munich with only 1 lb of Wheat Malt. Steep the Honey Malt.
Add .75 lb of Extra Light DME to the recipe to replace the .5 lb of Wheat Malt and compensate for the reduced efficiency of the Honey Malt due to steeping (50%).


Partial Mash Recipe #2:
1.0 lb Wheat Malt (Red or White) 2.5L
1.0 lb Flaked Wheat 1.7L
1.0 lb Honey Malt 20L
3.0 lb Bavarian Wheat DME (Briess, 65% Wheat + 35% Barley) 3L
2.5 lb Goldpils Vienna DME (Briess) 6L

Partial Mash Efficiency 80%
OG 1.058
Color 6.8 SRM

Process:
Perform a Partial Mash with the first 2 grains for 1 hour at 154F.
Steep the Honey Malt.

If your mash vessel is large enough you can add the Honey Malt to the mash. In that case, increase the Wheat Malt to 1.5 pound and reduce the Vienna DME to 1.75 lb.

General Note on Wheat Malt:
Wheat malt has much smaller kernels than Barley and should thus be milled on a narrower gap, or at least milled twice. It's usually a bit of a problem to get wheat (or rye) milled correctly at any commercial place. Some people claim to be successful using a blender to mill those grains. YMMV. If you have a grain mill or corn grinder, use that.

IslandLizard said:

From what I gather Honey Malt is not diastatic, and given the color, 20-30°L, I don't think we should expect it to be either.

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Most of the google hits for honey malt indicate a diastatic power of 50?

wilserbrewer said:

Most of the google hits for honey malt indicate a diastatic power of 50?

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I'm not surprised, but when you think about how it's made, and the final color being around 20°L from kilning, can you really expect it to have that high of a DP? Weyermann's ("Dark") Munich II at 8-10°L can only convert itself.

In addition to BSG's specs, here is where I confirmed the 0 DP from. Poster claims the information is based on an email from Gambrinus (Sep 2015):

Thanks lizard, it is odd, but in most brewing applications it doesn't really matter. I don't plan on doing a honey malt smash

Even IF honey malt has some diastatic power, as you say, likely best not to depend on it.

Kind of unique to PM and steeping grain type brewing.

wilserbrewer said:

Thanks lizard, it is odd, but in most brewing applications it doesn't really matter. I don't plan on doing a honey malt smash

Even IF honey malt has some diastatic power, as you say, likely best not to depend on it.

Kind of unique to PM and steeping grain type brewing.

Click to expand...

Yep, you can say that again!

Converting AG recipes to PM is not a straightforward 1:1 translation, see my attempt above. Other factors need to be included or at least taken into consideration. At least there are a lot more malt extracts available. 8 years ago one could not make a wheat beer using 80-100% extract.

When I started brewing I had to find out the hard way, I didn't know about HBT, and good brewing information in general seemed difficult to find. My LHBS was very little help except for selling the goodies.

After reading Palmer I had a decent idea why certain grains needed mashing and couldn't be steeped, but there was a large gray zone where it wasn't all that clear.

IslandLizard, thanks so much for your help!