Walk me off the RIMs ledge...or not!

I wanted to watch my temp control so step 1 was to control ferm temps. Check! Thank you Magic Chef.

I'm now thinking of doing a RIMs tube with 120v element to stabilize mash temps. My thought process is 1) I'm not ever brewing inside so full electric really isn't needed or required, 2) don't want to wire 220 outside (even though I already have a 220 spa panel already wired I could use, although it's 30 feet from where I brew), 3) don't want cords hanging from the kettle since I'm doing a mix of propane and electric so external RIMS seems feasible (would use cam locks for output and input).

I went BIAB for simplicity but now I'm concerned I'm over complicating the process with extra equipment (more to clean, store and break)

I'm struggling with keeping it simple v. having great mash control. This would also allow me to better do step mash, should I feel the need.

And my real concern is that I sold the wife on the idea that this is good for beer so she now thinks my beer will be 50% better! .

Ah, spend money on shiny new toys or keep on using my Amazon yoga mat as an insulator and try to keep temps close!

So I guess my question: anyone gone down this path and your thoughts after doing so?

I've gone from thinking I'd just rewire the 220 and hooking up a 30' ext cord using 10g and 4500w element, to using two 120v 20a outlets available outside and adding a 2000w and 1500w element to the kettle (both would be full electric), to RIMS, or doing nothing!

Decisions decisions!

How large a batch size are you brewing? I ask in that the larger you go, the more stable the temps become.

My personal opinion is that a couple few degrees mash temp fluctuation amounts to very little, less with larger batches. I would keep it simple and stick with the yoga mat.

I for one have no desire to clean, mantain, and operate a pump, rims tube, and controller...IMO just more to set up, monitor, clean, and break down every brew session.

Read the thread on mash tun re circulation issues, sometimes it is far from plug and play with a smile on your face.

Even though I have the coin and skill set to build a more complicated system, I truly have no desire....

Brulosopher did an interesting exbeeriment, whereby he mashed a split batch at two largely different temps, and the results were not all that dissimilar to the tasters. Yes, there differences in FG, but granted this was with mash temps like 15 degrees different...the yoga mat can easily do 10 times better for temp control.

I just think holding your mash temps to a gnats ass is not worth the effort, when you can do pretty darn well with a single infusion and wrapping the kettle. On my larger batches of 15 gallon, temps are pretty rock steady even without kettle insulation.

I think it comes down to the brewers needs and wants, and what he finds pleasurable. If you would enjoy building and using such a system, then by all means treat yourself and enjoy, but I have a hard time believing tighter mash temp control, say one degree instead of 2 or 3 degrees is the gateway to better beer.

edit...I'm very fond of electric brewing, just prefer to keep it as simple as possible.

I'll leave you with a quote from a thread on the ProBrewer forum from a thread about Mash rest times titled "10 Minute Mash" http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-41266.html

"Haha this is why I always get a kick out of homebrew/nano setups where the guy's all "Check out my sweet HERMS!"


Uh huh.
And are you using severely undermodified malt in a mash tun the size of a swimming pool?
No?
So you realize conversion is basically over in a couple minutes right? And you're mostly just wasting time?
No?
You also realize that a percent or two increase in efficiency will save you about 50 cents?
No?
Well at least you have disposable time and income. Say, does that mean your fermenters are glycol jacketed too? Or in a controlled fridge or something?
No?
Sigh.

One guy just could not grasp that at 10bbls not only did we not have a RIMS/HERMS, we don't need or want one. "

I've been debating between an electric BIAB system from Brau Supply or building my own propane fired system similar to the one in the YouTube video below. Check it out, just might give you some ideas.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xo-MogkY90[/ame]

Since you have a pump set up for the rims, skip the rims and get the screen from Bobby M and set the bag on it and just recirc with a VERY LOW flame. I have a 220 induction set up and am thinking of doing this. The screen is way cheaper then the tube. Besides my buddy uses a tube and has crud on the tip of the element when he's done. To me he's denaturing enzymes.

I was in the same place you were about 6 months ago. I decided to pick up one of the great 120v RIMS tubes from Bobby. It's really well made.

Should you do it?

If you really are looking to have a simple and carefree brew day, listen to Wilserbrewer and don't.

If you cannot resist the urge to make things more complicated, (like me) then go for it. Wilser is right that it is not as easy as just hooking everything up. What I'm finding is that a viole bag holds too much of the flour. Over the course of about 5 minutes the mash will get "stuck" and my pump runs dry. This is causes temperature problems as my RIMS element will still fire even though the wert is not circulating. I then have to stir and loosen up the bag to get it unstuck, which lasts about another 5 minutes. I've had inconsistent finishing gravities since I started with the RIMS setup, which is exactly what I thought I was trying to avoid. (Things were pretty consistent before with straight BIAB.) You can see the last of my attempts to fix this in this thread.

I'm 6 months and several batches in and still trying to make it work. I'm seriously considering going to 3 vessel brewing to make recirc work. (As I mentioned I cannot resist the urge to make things more complicated!)

Based on my experience, I'd say save your money and keep it simple.

I pulled the trigger on a RIMS setup last year. I ended up buying Bobby's RIMS tube and a 120V SS heating element and building my own controller. Nothing terribly complicated, as theres lots of material on the internet. I think it's helped me alot. Yes, it adds some additional complexity, but I was having some nasty swings in my mash temp, and I really didn't feel like struggling to maintain them.

I use the rims tube to assist my propane burner in to heat the strike water, which shaves about 20 minutes off my brew day as well.

As far as cleanup goes, I run hot PBW through my whole system to clean it as it is, so it wasn't that big of a deal to include running the pbw through the rims tube.

Calibration was fairly simple, I used 32F water, and then boiling water to calibrate the thermocouple, then I just filled my mash tun up with some water, and set the PID to autotune.

I love the addition to the system, and definitely recommend it.

NeoBrew said:

I was in the same place you were about 6 months ago. I decided to pick up one of the great 120v RIMS tubes from Bobby. It's really well made.

Should you do it?

If you really are looking to have a simple and carefree brew day, listen to Wilserbrewer and don't.

If you cannot resist the urge to make things more complicated, (like me) then go for it. Wilser is right that it is not as easy as just hooking everything up. What I'm finding is that a viole bag holds too much of the flour. Over the course of about 5 minutes the mash will get "stuck" and my pump runs dry. This is causes temperature problems as my RIMS element will still fire even though the wert is not circulating. I then have to stir and loosen up the bag to get it unstuck, which lasts about another 5 minutes. I've had inconsistent finishing gravities since I started with the RIMS setup, which is exactly what I thought I was trying to avoid. (Things were pretty consistent before with straight BIAB.) You can see the last of my attempts to fix this in this thread.

I'm 6 months and several batches in and still trying to make it work. I'm seriously considering going to 3 vessel brewing to make recirc work. (As I mentioned I cannot resist the urge to make things more complicated!)

Based on my experience, I'd say save your money and keep it simple.

Click to expand...

NeoBrew, where is the thermocouple for your rims located? If its in the mash tun, you'll definitely have issues with the liquid inside the tube boiling/scortching if you get a stuck sparge. I have mine located at the output end of the rims tube. I run the wort from the bottom of the heating element, through and out the top. If the sparge gets stuck, the liquid inside the rims tube will quickly reach the desired temp, and the element turns off.

Murphys_Law said:

I went BIAB for simplicity but now I'm concerned I'm over complicating the process with extra equipment (more to clean, store and break)

I'm struggling with keeping it simple v. having great mash control. This would also allow me to better do step mash, should I feel the need.



Ah, spend money on shiny new toys or keep on using my Amazon yoga mat as an insulator and try to keep temps close!

Click to expand...

My 2 cents is keep things simple, get a round cooler, put your BIAB bag in there and you'll have steady mash temps.

madscientist451 said:

My 2 cents is keep things simple, get a round cooler, put your BIAB bag in there and you'll have steady mash temps.

Click to expand...

After doing Biab for two years, I added a cooler so I didn't have to mess with a hot sticky bag. I'm very happy with the change, and I can still do biab when I want. I also added a pump, which while not necessary is nice for moving hot liquids safely and speeding up chilling with my immersion chiller using recirculation. You could start with a set up like this and add the rims tube later if you think it would help.

wilserbrewer said:

I'll leave you with a quote from a thread on the ProBrewer forum from a thread about Mash rest times titled "10 Minute Mash" http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-41266.html

Click to expand...

I read that... Pretty much spot on - I test my mash at 30 minutes and 9 times out of ten, it's done. I stir it up and do another 30 minutes...

The RIMS tube isnt too hard to clean, maybe five minutes of labor.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm struggling with "simple" vs. "flashing lights and shiny things".

I like toys and building things!

I brewed this week and it was in the 90's. The heat from the burner was miserable. I'm now really rethinking just running electric. Man, decisions and indecisiveness is killing me!

johnnysoj said:

NeoBrew, where is the thermocouple for your rims located? If its in the mash tun, you'll definitely have issues with the liquid inside the tube boiling/scortching if you get a stuck sparge. I have mine located at the output end of the rims tube. I run the wort from the bottom of the heating element, through and out the top. If the sparge gets stuck, the liquid inside the rims tube will quickly reach the desired temp, and the element turns off.

Click to expand...

I actually use two DS18B20 digital temp probes with an Arduino. One of them is in the mash tun, the other is in the output end of the RIMS tube. The system will not heat unless both are below temp. The reason it goes a couple degrees above set point in the tube is that the element retains some heat for a moment after it is shut down. If the flow through the tube is reduced because the mash is getting stuck, it tends to heat up. If I can keep the flow going even at a minimal rate, it keeps the temps moderated.

My controller is a custom built setup. There is a picture of my Franken-Troller here. I haven't gotten around to mounting it in an enclosure yet. Kind of hoping to get things tuned up and working better before I figure that out.

atoughram said:

The RIMS tube isnt too hard to clean, maybe five minutes of labor.

Click to expand...

If I could get you off your azz I could find for myself.

greyghost said:

If I could get you off your azz I could find for myself.

Click to expand...

Luv ya Pete... In a manly way of course...

atoughram said:

The RIMS tube isnt too hard to clean, maybe five minutes of labor.

Click to expand...

Ok, 5 minutes to clean the rims tube. But then you also have a pump, tubing, false bottom, controller and temp probe to set up, clean, disconnect, store etc.

My goal is simple and carefree, I understand others have different goals.

While I'm sure it all works wonderfully, and please don't think I'm knocking it, just not for me. I prefer to just rinse off my handheld thermometer and mash paddle, and sometimes that doesn't get done prior to the next brew.

wilserbrewer speaks good and wise words.

...but let me level with you Murphys Law. The simple fact that you even asked the question probably means that you are already a goner. You know it's true! lol

This is the point I get to all the time. Well, 'someday' I'm going to get it, so why not just get it now?

Good luck with your decision. Although, I'm pretty sure we all know how this one ends. ;-)

NeoBrew said:

wilserbrewer speaks good and wise words.

...but let me level with you Murphys Law. The simple fact that you even asked the question probably means that you are already a goner. You know it's true! lol

This is the point I get to all the time. Well, 'someday' I'm going to get it, so why not just get it now?

Good luck with your decision. Although, I'm pretty sure we all know how this one ends. ;-)

Click to expand...

Lol!

Man, I have no idea what I'll do right now. I'm now leaning more toward just doing a 220v line and a 4500w element! Hell, I'll be trying to figure this out this time next summer!

Something about making great beer with cheap gear makes the hobby more intriguing. Just my preference though. Simplicity makes it more enjoyable for me, but I appreciate the rigs some Brewers have built around here. Would be fun to brew on for sure.

I will have to say the RIM's system is the best thing since sliced bread and I controlled it with a 310 inkbird.