How to control the boil kettle?

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Valvefan

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Hi all,

I have been looking at these forums for a few days and I am confused.

I would like to brew indoors in my garage and use an electric kettle. I am happy with my igloo cooler mash tun for now.

I am going to instal a 4500W ULWD element into my 15 gal kettle. My electrician will instal 240 V service in my garage with a GFCI breaker.

I just want to be able to control the power going to the element so I can control the intensity of the boil. Don't want wort wasted on the floor.

Is there a VERY simple controller that I could build? Are there plans and instructions already compiled?

I would really appreciate a shove in the right direction.

Thanks

Valvefan
 
You can use what is termed as a PWM control ( basically a rotary dial device ) that controls the input signal to an SCR, effectively controlling the boil.
They are very cheap to build if you are able to solder electronics.
Jim
 
A PWM can be built with an LM555 timer chip. Schematics are all over the internet. I can't look right now.

They are cheap from China on eBay.
 
There are simple pre-made controllers you can buy. These usually have a single PID and links are all over this forum.

The easiest to build would be a variable SSR and a potentiometer. Wiring is straightforward, but unless you have the tools and experience to wire high voltage devices, you would be better off buying something off the shelf.

-BD
 
Cool

Where do I insert this component? Do I just cut one of the hot wires of my power cord and insert this component?

Thanks
 
Valvefan said:
Cool

Where do I insert this component? Do I just cut one of the hot wires of my power cord and insert this component?

Thanks
Click to expand...

the one linked above from ebay doesnt get any simpler to wire... just 2 hot wires in and two out to the element... (its labeled in and out) you run the third (ground) wire straight to the kettle or element body. It really can be easier than many us use design and make them out to be...

It will work on 220v but I believe it is designed for and would have much better control if used with the 50hz European 220v instead of our 60hz 240v (basically the knob will be super touchy)... Unless im wrong on this design but thats the way the older ones were? also I have seen many boards burn up where the fuse mounts to the board on the older designs, hopefully thats been addressed.

Dont forget the gfci circut breaker....
 
I used an SSR-V for a year before I decided to rebuild and go to a 3-vessel electric setup. It's just an SSR that you connect a 10k potentiometer to on one side and one of the hot legs to on the other. Hot leg then goes out to the element. Other hot leg is wired directly to element. The switching frequency is high but it's fine with a heatsink.
 
OK,

In order to have control over my 240V 4500 W element, does the following make sense?

One of the live wires goes directly to the element,

The other live wire goes into the SSR (where it is switched on and off) and then emerges from the SSR and goes to the remaining terminal in the heating element.

The control device which in my case will be an Auberins Digital Solid State Relay Power Regulator DSPR1 will receive power from BOTH live lines. The low voltage control signal will be carried from the DSPR1 to the SSR using 2 wires going to the control terminals on the SSV.

Should I have a switch for both live lines?

Should I connect the ground from the element to the ground on the 240 AC outlet?

Does the controller's enclosure have a ground terminal which should also be connected to the ground on the AC outlet?

Thanks!!
 
I'm having trouble getting all of what you're saying but I will address some of it.

If the controller is 240v then yes, you'll power it from both live lines. If it's 120v then you'll need a neutral line or just a separate circuit to power it.

Most people will tell you that the right way to do it is to have a physical disconnect for both hot lines, like a double-pole contactor. Big box stores also carry 30a dpst switches (like industrial light switches) that could work as well. You should really switch both lines physically.

Ground lines should always be "home runs" that go straight to the ground as much as possible.

Can't tell you about the enclosure but it should be obvious from the schematics or product description if not the device itself. Otherwise your plan sounds correct. Wiring stuff like this is not terribly complex once you see it and trace the signals.
 
True it's not complex but experimenting with big voltage and big current/wires could end very badly. Make sure to have an expert look at the what you are doing.

For example, valve's post is confusing: using a SSVR of a standard SSR?

-BD
 
Valvefan said:
OK,

In order to have control over my 240V 4500 W element, does the following make sense?

One of the live wires goes directly to the element,

The other live wire goes into the SSR (where it is switched on and off) and then emerges from the SSR and goes to the remaining terminal in the heating element.

The control device which in my case will be an Auberins Digital Solid State Relay Power Regulator DSPR1 will receive power from BOTH live lines. The low voltage control signal will be carried from the DSPR1 to the SSR using 2 wires going to the control terminals on the SSV.

Should I have a switch for both live lines?

Should I connect the ground from the element to the ground on the 240 AC outlet?

Does the controller's enclosure have a ground terminal which should also be connected to the ground on the AC outlet?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

If one hot goes directly to the element, then when plugged in, 120v will always be at the element, which you dont want (in case of dry firing) I believe you want a DPST to (one line to SSVR, other to element) in order to avoid this.

This is where I ran into issues with building my own controller. I just went with a Jagger Bush 240v controller to err on the side of caution, and have been satisfied with the product.
 
Natdavis777 said:
If one hot goes directly to the element, then when plugged in, 120v will always be at the element, which you dont want (in case of dry firing) I believe you want a DPST to (one line to SSVR, other to element) in order to avoid this.



This is where I ran into issues with building my own controller. I just went with a Jagger Bush 240v controller to err on the side of caution, and have been satisfied with the product.
Click to expand...


Not true, if you have only one leg 120v of a 240v circuit energized, it will not heat the element, since the circuit isn't complete. The element would just float at 120v, the only way it would heat is if the other leg is grounded (1/2 power) or the other 120 leg of the 240v circuit is energized (full power)

Most 240v 2 wire circuits are controlled by one of the 120v legs in the home brewing world. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a safety disconnect that opens both 120v legs before the controller.
 
trimixdiver1 said:
Not true, if you have only one leg 120v of a 240v circuit energized, it will not heat the element, since the circuit isn't complete. The element would just float at 120v, the only way it would heat is if the other leg is grounded (1/2 power) or the other 120 leg of the 240v circuit is energized (full power)

Most 240v 2 wire circuits are controlled by one of the 120v legs in the home brewing world. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a safety disconnect that opens both 120v legs before the controller.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. See, that is where I was starting to get tripped up and reading conflicting information about 240 controllers. Hence, purchased one that had an on/off switch instead of building one and possibly causing a safety hazard.
 
Valvefan said:
One of the live wires goes directly to the element,
Click to expand...
Check

Valvefan said:
The other live wire goes into the SSR (where it is switched on and off) and then emerges from the SSR and goes to the remaining terminal in the heating element.
Click to expand...
Check

Valvefan said:
The control device which in my case will be an Auberins Digital Solid State Relay Power Regulator DSPR1 will receive power from BOTH live lines.
Click to expand...
That's fine as long as the power supply is rated for 240. If not, take the controller supply from one hot (before the SSR) and the neutral (120V)

Valvefan said:
The low voltage control signal will be carried from the DSPR1 to the SSR using 2 wires going to the control terminals on the SSV.
Click to expand...
Check. This signal is optically isolated from the high voltage in the SSR.

Valvefan said:
Should I have a switch for both live lines?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. This is called a 'disconnect'. If it only disconnects one side it hasn't disconnected the circuit completely.

Valvefan said:
Should I connect the ground from the element to the ground on the 240 AC outlet?
Click to expand...
Yes.


Valvefan said:
Does the controller's enclosure have a ground terminal which should also be connected to the ground on the AC outlet?
Click to expand...
If it doesn't it should and yes, the controller should be grounded.
 
thanks Ajdelange

I might just buy a cotnroller from Jagger Bush brewing. After buying parts, tools enclosure and paying for shipping, building my own will not be much cheaper.

Valvefan
 
The eBay one linked to above works just fine on 60hz. Thousands of distillers can't be wrong. Drunk maybe.
I have two of them they run completely linear and cool.
If building, beware there are several different SSRs with different means of controlling them.

Lastly, make a visit to a home distilling site. These guys have control of a boil kettle down to an art.
 
Bellybuster said:
The eBay one linked to above works just fine on 60hz. Thousands of distillers can't be wrong. Drunk maybe.

I have two of them they run completely linear and cool.

If building, beware there are several different SSRs with different means of controlling them.



Lastly, make a visit to a home distilling site. These guys have control of a boil kettle down to an art.
Click to expand...


I need to plug into a l6-30p outlet. Could I just get an l6-30 extension cord, strip the middle and cut the hots, use the two hots in and two hots out?

Does this device replace the dspr1 and ssr+ heat sink?
Seems super cheap. My goal is to dial my 5500w heat stick down to 60% once I reach boil.
 
DSP-brasseur said:
I need to plug into a l6-30p outlet. Could I just get an l6-30 extension cord, strip the middle and cut the hots, use the two hots in and two hots out?

Does this device replace the dspr1 and ssr+ heat sink?
Seems super cheap. My goal is to dial my 5500w heat stick down to 60% once I reach boil.
Click to expand...

Yes it could be a possible replacement for the auber Dspr1 as far as controlling the heat

and for those reading Jaggerbush brewing is no more .. The owner passed away last year. So thats no longer an option.
 

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