Help! i think my water sucks!

So i finally got a water report after my first 10 months or so of brewing at least once a month, and not making 1 decent ipa after probably 5 attempts. I'm in the country so it's well water through a water softener, and I'm running my brew water through a filter as well. Here are the results
Chloride 110
Fluoride 0.61
Sodium 221
Sulfate 60
All listed as mg/L
My ipas always come through malty, more like a slightly hoppy amber than anything. Any ideas what i should change, add, give up all together?

Do you have a faucet that does not go through the water softener??? An outdoor faucet for example?

The thing that really jumps out is that sodium (from your softener). I have been playing around a lot recently with my water and brewing a TON of IPA's. I have been finding some great results with 120 chloride to 60 sulfate...... I know this runs contrary to high sulfate/low chloride that is usually the target.

If you had a faucet that is off of the softener.... I would try that. The softener is a big problem.

I have a water softener, and I use water from an outdoor faucet, and cut it with store bought RO water to combat really high Bicarbonate.

Yeah i do have an outdoor faucet, but i would have to garden hose it into where i brew or to the water filter (which I've heard can result in negative tastes as well) i would love to hardline a water line from just before the softener straight to the filter in the garage which is only a few feet at some point.
In the mean time i was curious as to what additives and how much to add to the water to make up the difference. And now that I'm thinking about it, is the garden hose thought a legitimate one or more of a wives tale?

Before messing around with anything else, I would suggest this:

Go to Wally World and buy a case (6 gallons) of reverse osmosis or spring water (I wouldn't get distilled unless you want to do a LOT of "water building"). Use that 6 gallons plus a gallon of your water (assuming you're doing all grain). You may need another gallon or so even - up to you whether you use RO/spring water for that or use tap. Maybe toss a tablespoon of gypsum in there for good luck, or maybe don't even bother.

You'll get plenty of "trace minerals" from using a little of your water, but you'll dilute a lot of what's making you unhappy right now with the majority of the water being pretty neutral.

I've done my beers this way quite a few times and it's almost foolproof. I got away from it (got lazy) and now I'm not happy with how the hop flavor/aroma has been in my hoppy beers and my efficiency has suffered as well. I'm about due to go back to it. If you're REALLY looking to save money, yeah, this does cost a bit but once you've got the jugs you can refill them quite a few places for generally $0.25-$0.40 a gallon. Spending $1.50 to maybe just under $3 for water to make great beer is, IMO, not a big deal.

buy an RV foodgrade hose..... that is what I use. And, I fill 3 gallon jugs with RO water at walmart for .39 cents per gallon.

I don't know that there is anything you can "add" to your water to take OUT the 200+ sodium. That is the problem.

You could also fill water jugs off of the spigot.

Bottom line, I don't think the softener water is any good - no matter what you add to it. You can use all RO. You can possibly use your outdoor faucet. Or you can blend the two. Not sure that your softener water is really an option if you want good beer..... unless you are using small amounts of it.

Alright thanks for the input. Bypassing the softener shouldn't be too hard of a task

The other thing that you should ultimately do is get a correct lab report from Ward Labs (or other source) on the water you will be using from your outdoor faucet so you can know exactly what is in it, then you can use some water software (I use B'run Water) to dial in pH and mineral additions.

It is hard to know exactly what to do with water for a particular beer without knowing the specific details of what you actually start with.

One of the big things will be the hardness of that water ..... bicarbonate/alkalinity # for example. I am guessing that if you have a water softener.... you have hard water. Hard water can push your mash/sparge pH higher than you would want. Also, you may lose some of that chloride (not sure) when it is not going through the softener. That is why you kind of want to find out what you are dealing with in your water source.

I hesitate to say "just add this amount of gypsum" and your IPA's will be good - so much depends on your starting point. If you just want to do an experimental IPA you could go will all RO water for mash and sparge and then use the "Water Primer" sticky at the top of this brewing science forum to add a set amt of gypsum and CaCl ..... that will get you in the ballpark of where you want to go. It would be a useful approach until you get your specific water numbers from outdoor faucet.

dlampen45 said:

So i finally got a water report after my first 10 months or so of brewing at least once a month, and not making 1 decent ipa after probably 5 attempts. I'm in the country so it's well water through a water softener, and I'm running my brew water through a filter as well. Here are the results
Chloride 110

Click to expand...

That's reasonably high and suggests that perhaps your resin bed is not being completely back-washed but as others have said you should not be using softened water for brewing. Most modern softeners have a shuttle valve on the back of the head which permits them to be bypassed. If yours doesn't it is a simple matter to install a couple of valves to allow it to be bypassed for drawing brewing water. Home Despot has all the parts you will need.

dlampen45 said:

Fluoride 0.61
Sodium 221

Click to expand...

Thats almost 10 mEq sodium per liter and the question is as to how much of it replaced calcium in your water. If all 10 mEq/L were from softening that says your total hardness would be 500 which is pretty darn hard but more to the point is that it is usually accompanied by a similar level of alkalinity which would render the water useless for brewing unless decarbonated. Supposing all the chloride , 110 / 35 .45 = 3.1 mEq/L are from sodium chloride that didn't get backi-washed that still leaves 7 from replacing hardness which means total hardness of 350 and like alkalinity. A bit more manageable but still a problem. You may simply have water that isn't suited for brewing but, as has been suggested, you need to confirm this with a pre - softened water test from an outfit like Ward Labs. It is well worth what they charge for it.

dlampen45 said:

My ipas always come through malty, more like a slightly hoppy amber than anything. Any ideas what i should change, add, give up all together?

Click to expand...

Not until I know what's in your water.

I don't' have any hope for your tap water being useful. Not at 100% dilution, anyway. You might be fine mixing with some RO water, or distilled. They are practically the same thing, as the trace amounts in RO water are so minute that they don't affect your calculations.

If you get a Ward Lab report, you can know if you can augment some RO water with your tap water and save $3 per batch. I buy my RO water downtown for $0.40 a gallon. I usually buy 10 gallons a batch so I have plenty and a little left over.

It's almost easier for most styles to just buy RO for all the water, rather than mix it with tap, although I will mix if I'm doing a stout.

My softener has a bypass valve that I push in. I'm sure yours has one View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1438780180.507586.jpg

mozart4898 said:

Go to Wally World and buy a case (6 gallons) of reverse osmosis or spring water (I wouldn't get distilled unless you want to do a LOT of "water building").

Click to expand...

RO and distilled are effectively the same for brewing. Spring water is the odd man out here, and has absolutely NO implication of mineral content. "Spring" water can range from nearly distilled to very hard and alkaline. Unless you know what you're buying, you're no better off than brewing blind with tap water.

You'll do just the same "water building" with RO as with distilled, and would be much preferred here.

That isn't very favorable brewing water. Yes, bypassing the softener is a requirement since the sodium level is excessive for brewing. The other concern with that water is the chloride level. While AJ raised the specter that it was due to insufficient backwashing, I wouldn't be surprised that the chloride is a natural component of your well water. The chloride level would be responsible for the fuller and maltier flavor in your beer. The sodium is also aiding in that increased malt perception.

Your report is incomplete and there are other important parameters needed. Hopefully you have them or you will need to have more testing performed.

How are you getting fluoride in your well water?

TD