PSA: Check your tank's weight after a fill

I have a 10 lb aluminum tank that I usually have filled at a local beer distributor. Took it in the other day for a fill...they gave it back to me and it didn't really feel much heavier but i was in a hurry so I paid and left. the tare weight as listed on the tank is 14.4 lbs...my digital scale at home read 17 lbs after the fill. So i paid $22 for 2.6 lbs of co2?!? I immediately called them to tell them the situation (still waiting to hear what they plan to do about it).

I never weighed my tanks before but this explains why i've been going through gas more often lately...they've been filling my tank a quarter full.

as a side note..is gas up everywhere? seems places that used to fill 10 lbs for $12-15 are now all around $20.

I don't weigh them these days because I don't pay for them. But when I pay for a fill I definitely weigh them. They are usually at capacity or slightly overfull when filled by airgas. But I have noticed that the TW can be off by a .25# or more sometimes. +- 10% is good for my scale. Mostly 20# tanks anyway.

Thanks for the heads up.

Its around 10$ for a fill here from Airgas. My LHBS is 17$ (a lot closer than Airgas) and they do a good job filling properly.

Good post. I found the same thing happening at a local place. What pissed me off the most is that I had them fill four tanks and it was a 45 minute round trip. I also paid cash so they couldn't just give me a refund over the phone. They really didn't seem too concerned. They said they just open the valve until it doesn't flow anymore and whatever is in there is what you get. Hmmmm, sell a product by weight and don't weigh the product you're selling? Fraud?

Natdavis777 said:

Its around 10$ for a fill here from Airgas. My LHBS is 17$ (a lot closer than Airgas) and they do a good job filling properly.

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just checked my local airgas... they will only do swaps. a 10 lb tank swap is $27 with taxes. what the hell is up with co2 prices in this area?

atom said:

just checked my local airgas... they will only do swaps. a 10 lb tank swap is $27 with taxes. what the hell is up with co2 prices in this area?

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Sorry, I should have specified. This was for a 5# tank. I havnt had to go in a little over a year since I have moved, so the swaps are new to me.

Also, I have found that those paper gaskets sometimes included (by OxArc at least) are typically old and leak.... invest in a teflon gasket. Perhaps this time I can use my tank for more than one keg!

I just started to put my tank on a scale to keep an eye on where I am at since the gauge is not really effective. Plan to take it with me when I get it refilled as well. I think I got taken a couple times in the past.

This is a good reminder to weigh your canister before and after filling if your local homebrew store charges a flat fee. I've found that the best home brew stores charge you per pound of co2 which I love.

I have two 5# tanks (scored one for free recently), so I have plenty of gas, but when the time comes, I think Ill weigh my empty tank and compare with the swapped tank. Only issue I can see is a possible weight variable from different tank manufacturer(s)

Natdavis777 said:

I have two 5# tanks (scored one for free recently), so I have plenty of gas, but when the time comes, I think Ill weigh my empty tank and compare with the swapped tank. Only issue I can see is a possible weight variable from different tank manufacturer(s)

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Doubt there is much difference. I have a 20# steel and it's a heavy *&(^(*& once full and carrying it to the basement. I also have a 5# aluminum I don't use anymore, thought of selling it???

30Bones said:

Doubt there is much difference. I have a 20# steel and it's a heavy *&(^(*& once full and carrying it to the basement. I also have a 5# aluminum I don't use anymore, thought of selling it???

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I have a buddy who will soon be kegging. If you are willing to PM a price for the 5#, I can relay to him and see if he is up for a purchase.

The gas place in my area weighs the tank before/after they fill it. So, when I have had to have a tank filled, I've always gotten the right amount.

This last time I went, I swapped tanks, so swapping may be a different story unless the tanks that are swapped are identical.

Natdavis777 said:

I have a buddy who will soon be kegging. If you are willing to PM a price for the 5#, I can relay to him and see if he is up for a purchase.

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Honestly, not worth shipping. If I sell it will be to a club member sorry about that, my post was a bit vague.

30Bones said:

Honestly, not worth shipping. If I sell it will be to a club member sorry about that, my post was a bit vague.

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Its all good. I thought about the weight factor after I posted it.

Bobby_M said:

Good post. I found the same thing happening at a local place. What pissed me off the most is that I had them fill four tanks and it was a 45 minute round trip. I also paid cash so they couldn't just give me a refund over the phone. They really didn't seem too concerned. They said they just open the valve until it doesn't flow anymore and whatever is in there is what you get. Hmmmm, sell a product by weight and don't weigh the product you're selling? Fraud?

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My refilling place made no apologies. When I confronted them, they said their equipment would only put 7# in a 10# tank. WTF. I'm living with it until I find a better place.

The receipt does state 10# refill.

passedpawn said:

My refilling place made no apologies. When I confronted them, they said their equipment would only put 7# in a 10# tank. WTF. I'm living with it until I find a better place.

The receipt does state 10# refill.

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Can you ask for a breakdown of price per lb? Or at least have them explain their rationale? As argumentative as I am, they would need to explain it down the penny for me to accept that.

Natdavis777 said:

Can you ask for a breakdown of price per lb? Or at least have them explain their rationale? As argumentative as I am, they would need to explain it down the penny for me to accept that.

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I did. The filling guy just stated that's the way it's always been. The lady at the checkout was surprised and said I should complain to mgmt. I might drop an email on them at some point, but I'll just change stores when I find an alternative. I don't get mad, I get even

Send a well-written letter to the refilling company's top brass, with a cc: to your state's attorney general's office. The AG might take a dim view of consumers getting short-changed by unscrupulous merchants.

passedpawn said:

I don't get mad, I get even

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MaxStout said:

Send a well-written letter to the refilling company's top brass, with a cc: to your state's attorney general's office. The AG might take a dim view of consumers getting short-changed by unscrupulous merchants.

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I agree.

passedpawn said:

My refilling place made no apologies. When I confronted them, they said their equipment would only put 7# in a 10# tank. WTF. I'm living with it until I find a better place.

The receipt does state 10# refill.

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Would the tank safety valve go if they filled more? You certainly don't want an overfilled CO2 tank. I would guess this is an implemented safety issue they have in place. What's your regulator say?

brewcat said:

Would the tank safety valve go if they filled more? You certainly don't want an overfilled CO2 tank. I would guess this is an implemented safety issue they have in place. What's your regulator say?

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No, it has nothing to do with my tank. They have filling equipment limitation.

I don't know what my regulator said, but it certainly wasn't too high.

I was once skeptical of my old LHBS because my tanks were only lasting two kegs and dying. Came to the realization that I lost my teflon washer in my regulator and was bleeding gas. Glad I realized the problem first before making an a$$ of myself. Even the owner of the store commented on how I shouldnt have been out of gas yet.

Leak or no leak, short fills are pretty common it seems. Both will cause you to have to refill sooner and both should be be dealt with.

This is a case of where "truth in advertising" doesn't always apply.

With most commodities, you get the amount advertised. A gallon of gas is a gallon; pumps are calibrated and certified by the state. A pound of sugar is 16 ounces net weight. If merchants were to pinch customers on the amount there would be hell to pay.

But a few things aren't dispensed in true quantities claimed. A 20 lb. propane tank doesn't get filled with 20 lbs, it's usually a few pounds less. Most taprooms in the U.S. sell "pints" of beer in shaker glasses that would barely hold 16 oz even if filled to the rim with no head. (In many other countries, the glassware is marked with a fill line.) These businesses would claim it's simply a "customary business practice" to do this. They've always done it that way and thus, it has become an accepted practice. It's billed as a nominal "20 lbs" of propane or a "pint" of beer, but in truth you get less.

Well Blue Rhino got a class action up their ass for doing it. Now the label has to say 14 lb net weight.

I've gotten fills from four different local suppliers now and have never gotten a complete fill, anywhere from 1/2 - 2 lbs. short. I think short fills have become customary because they know the vast majority of their customers will never weigh them.

Even when I let them know that am aware of Tare Weights and generally what is supposed to happen they still end up short.

Just today I asked one of the guys at a welding supply house about their process, if they had a pump to properly fill #20 cylinders and larger and he said no they fill from a large tank that they get from their supplier. He said they fill with about 7 lbs. and blow that off to get the tank cold and then refill to get the #20. He also said if their supply tank is getting low they might have to do that with smaller tanks as well. I still ended up short a 1/2 lb. on a 2 1/2 tank and 1 lb. short on a 5lb tank.

As I mentioned, since they know most of their customer's won't be weighing the end product it seems they really don't care..

I remember filling NOS bottles when I worked at Summit Racing. In the winter we could get more than 10 lbs into the tank and in summer we had to work hard to fill it with 10 but always charged by the weight we added. The difference was the heat generated plus the tank temp. Winters here are 30-40 degrees and summers can hit 100.

I went to my local hydroponic store and swapped an empty 20 lb tank for a full one for $15. My local ice seller (up to 40 lb bags) has a station and my 5lb tank was usually $17 or less. If anyone told me their policy was to fill the tank with 3 lbs less and charge me for it I wouldn't hesitate to email their heads and the state attorney saying not only will I never shop there again but I will also not be surprised if they're investigated for fraudulent business.

Also, my bad sized propane tanks get filled with 5 gallons. I watch the meter and they fill them until the liquid starts comig out the valve they open. Anyone who tells you they need to be filled with less needs to learn the tank holds MORE than 5 gallons and accounts for the 20% or whatever it is headspace they claim.


In summary, the tank SHOULD have an empty weight stamped on it and stores should charge per pound not tank capacity and a tank exchange might be worth it if possible.