BIAB pre-noob, sorry for annoying questions...

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Ike

Ike

nOob for life
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By pre-noob I mean that a noob would have at least one batch under their belt, but I don't even have THAT, I'm just beginning the reading that is needed to get me ready for the first batch!

Currently, I do 5 gallon extract/specialty boils in a 10 (technically 11 I guess) gallon pot over a propane burner. I want to go BIAB because I'd like to see things get a bit cheaper, and because it seems to be the next step in moving towards a better process. Initial questions so far:

1.) Can I work BIAB with a 5 gallon boil in a 10 gallon pot and a 5 gallon paint strainer bag? It would seem that clipping it to the pot won't work. Given the smaller grain bill, can I just tie off the bag and float it like I have been doing with the specialty grains in my current batches? Or do I have to sink the cash into a 10gal grain bag?

1a) If the answer to #1 is "yes" then what's your guess on the amount of grains I can put in a tied-off 5 gallon bag and still get decent efficiency?

and

2.) How critical is the basket? It seems many use the steel basket but others seem to get by without it. Especially in light of my smaller grain bills for 5 gallon batches, will I be able to manage the bag without it for a while? It'd be nice to try a few BIAB batches to really get a feel for the cost savings before I sink the cashola on the basket.

and

3.) Water chemistry: OK to get into a bit later, or definitely something I need to quantify and adjust right from the get-go?


Thanks for helping me kick the extract habit!

Ike
 
skydiver30960 said:
By pre-noob I mean that a noob would have at least one batch under their belt, but I don't even have THAT, I'm just beginning the reading that is needed to get me ready for the first batch!

Currently, I do 5 gallon extract/specialty boils in a 10 (technically 11 I guess) gallon pot over a propane burner. I want to go BIAB because I'd like to see things get a bit cheaper, and because it seems to be the next step in moving towards a better process. Initial questions so far:

1.) Can I work BIAB with a 5 gallon boil in a 10 gallon pot and a 5 gallon paint strainer bag? It would seem that clipping it to the pot won't work. Given the smaller grain bill, can I just tie off the bag and float it like I have been doing with the specialty grains in my current batches? Or do I have to sink the cash into a 10gal grain bag?

1a) If the answer to #1 is "yes" then what's your guess on the amount of grains I can put in a tied-off 5 gallon bag and still get decent efficiency?

and

2.) How critical is the basket? It seems many use the steel basket but others seem to get by without it. Especially in light of my smaller grain bills for 5 gallon batches, will I be able to manage the bag without it for a while? It'd be nice to try a few BIAB batches to really get a feel for the cost savings before I sink the cashola on the basket.

and

3.) Water chemistry: OK to get into a bit later, or definitely something I need to quantify and adjust right from the get-go?


Thanks for helping me kick the extract habit!

Ike
Click to expand...

1. It's better to find a bag that fits the kettle, to allow room for stirring the mash at dough-in. Check to make sure the paint strainer bag will fit around the rim of your kettle and that the bag goes to (or near) the bottom.

1a. With a good fit on a 10g kettle you should be able to get 12-15 lbs of grain into it, maybe more.

2. Invest in a good bag that fits your kettle. Wilserbrewer on this forum makes good ones that custom match to your kettle. You won't need a basket.

3. Check this thread for a good primer on water chem.
 
A 5 g paint strainer bag is a bit small. You can cheap out with some voile curtains from ikea, walmart, lowes, etc. just fold 'em over and line the pot. I think at ikea you get 2 big panels for under $5. The weave is a bit coarse, though. If you or some one you know can sew, you can make your own bag.

If you stick with paint strainer bags, maybe use 2? Tying them off is a problem since you might want or need to stir during the mash. I stir about every 15 minutes. And I definitely stir when I occasionally direct fire the mash to account for too much of a temp drop. I use a handful of the big black office binder clips to affix my bag to the kettle and for my hops bag too.

I used ikea curtains for almost a year before sucking it up and buying a combo set from Wilserbrewer, here on HBT. I gotta say, a decent bag is much nicer to deal with than folded curtains.

I've never used a basket. I just heave the bag out of the pot and slip a sturdy grate on top of the kettle for the bag to rest on. I'm stovetop in my kitchen, though. If I were outside, I'd use a step ladder and pulley (see Alton Brown's Turkey Derrick for an example) and just let it hang.

Get the bru'nwater spread sheet (or another of your choosing) and enter the numbers from your water utility's annual report. That'll give you an idea if things are too far out of whack. I don't do any water adjustments yet, except to use campden tabs for chloramines.


Edit to add:
Here's a review of wilser's bag: http://brulosophy.com/2014/05/28/product-review-wilserbrewer-biab-bags/
 
Get a bag that fits your kettle. The difference in the cost of the batch for the grains instead of extract will probably cover the cost of the bag and when that batch is done, you will still own the bag.

While some people advocate stirring every 15 minutes I found that the conversion was done long before that so I don't bother stirring. I would suggest that you mash for at least 30 minutes and up to 60 would be good as it seems to extract more flavor. However, since the conversion is likely over quickly you won't have to worry about a couple degree drop in the mash temp.
 
skydiver30960 said:
1.) Can I work BIAB with a 5 gallon boil in a 10 gallon pot and a 5 gallon paint strainer bag? It would seem that clipping it to the pot won't work. Given the smaller grain bill, can I just tie off the bag and float it like I have been doing with the specialty grains in my current batches? Or do I have to sink the cash into a 10gal grain bag?Ike
Click to expand...

The whole idea of BIAB is to line your kettle with the bag and leave the grains as loose as possible. It is not like a steeping bag. You also want the biggest kettle you can afford. a 10-gallon kettle will get you 5 gallons into your fermenter if you keep under 1.060. 15 gallon capacity would be better.

My best efficiencies come with a 90-minute mash, stirring once at 60 minutes and a mash-out before pulling the bag. Insulating he kettle with a sleeping bag or quilt minimizes the potential of having to make a temperature adjustment.

Also - +1 on the Wilserbrewer bags - just get the set - you will not regret it.
 
You can use two paint strainer bags, splitting the grain bill between them, and clip them to the side of the pot. It is a bit of a pain to open them mid-mash to stir, but it works. Makes it easier to hoist the bags, since grain bill is split. I did that for awhile, but went the Wilserbag route, and don't regret it a bit.
 
Thanks to all for the replies. The gist seems to be "skip the basket and spend some of the money you would have spent on the basket on a good bag." Will do!

And, I'll start working on water chemistries. Up until now I haven't worried much, both because of the extract brewing AND because I've always had the extra cash to spend $6/batch on bottled water. But, the purse strings are tighter now, so I'm looking to save any way I can. Using tap water (with the necessary adjustments) along with harvesting and washing yeast will help knock around $15/batch off the bottom line, just for starters. BIAB will only help more.


Thanks again!

:mug:
 
Your planned objective, 5 gallon brews in a 10 gallon pot is similar to my usual batches. Id o 5.5 gallon batches and keg 5 gallons.

I have a pictorial walk through in thread and article form below that will cover some of your questions.

Took me a bit to start delving into water chemistry. It is not rocket science but there are more important steps to nail down and have as routine before getting into that I think. I do mineral additions (targeted and planned) and mash pH adjustments as a matter of routine now. It's easy and fun. Just takes a little homework. Not much mind you.

A decent pot

A good bag (sized correctly)

A good understanding of the mechanics, chemistry and biology involved and the gadgets and gizmos can come later.

BIAB is a really great simple effective process. I love the results I am getting consistently. I reckon you will too. Best of luck with it.
 
Odd: double post a half hour later? Sorry...
 
Bottled water is not necessarily any better than tap water. Lots of folks talk about using "spring" water. A meaningless term and may not be suitable for brewing.

If you're going to get into water chemistry plan on either
1: A ward labs report to tell you what's in your water at one point in time (hopefully this is relatively stable through the course of the year). City reports can highlight any seasonal changes to look for.
Adjust the water accordingly depending on the targeted mineral profile

2: Use RO water for ~$0.40 per gallon from Kroger/Walmart etc and build the desired mineral profile from this water blank canvass

3: A combined approach
Tap water cut with RO water and minerals added to desired target.


Know where you are starting from and know what you want to target. Use software to work out the additions.


The second issue with thin mashes with BIAB is mash pH. This is arguably just as important if not more important particularly with certain types of beer (light colored). Again some tools and knowledge are needed. (not much)

All very doable
 
In the replies above, you have seen recommendations for different mash times. They are all correct for the responders' brewing processes. So, why the difference? Mash time is determined by the time it takes to get to a desired completeness of starch to sugar completion (saccharification.) The time required for saccharification is a function of grain crush size and temperature (and a few other parameters.) With a very fine crush (like coarse flour or corn meal) your mash can be complete in 30 minutes. With a crush from a 0.040" gap roller mill, your mash might take 90 minutes to complete. A mash at 148° - 149°F could take 25% - 50% longer than a mash at 154° - 156°F. So, try to get some idea of how your grain is crushed, and plan your mash time based on that.

Nothing terribly bad will happen if your mash is a little to short or long, but the beer may not be exactly what you were hoping for. But, it will be beer. Keep good notes, so you can make adjustments on your future brews.

Brew on :mug:
 

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