Almost ready to start kegging, a couple more questions/concerns.

Yakima 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
chexjc

chexjc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
70
Reaction score
2
Okay so I think I have everything I need to get started kegging on order from KegConnection. Thank you all for the advice thus far! Just a couple of questions and one concern remaining...

First up, I've ordered a 2-valve manifold so that I can have two beers on tap at once at the same carbonation. I'm setting the kegerator up to handle one corny and one sanke. What does this mean for carbonating a corny? I gather that I can set-and-forget at 12psi, but could I hypothetically turn the valve off for the sanke and turn up the psi to carb the corny?

Next, a bigger concern. I brew and ferment my beer (in a chamber) about twenty minutes away from my apartment at my parent's lake house. It works out well because I have a yard to brew outside with propane and the space for the chest freezer. Now that I have the kegerator set up at the apartment, I thought it'd be great to ferment, transfer to keg and drive it to my apartment. My concern is over oxidation. If the CO2 tank is at my apartment, how do I minimalism risk of oxidation after racking and driving for twenty minutes? Can I purge the keg at my apartment and then fill it there, hit it with CO2 when I get home and release the pressure a couple times? Any ideas?

Thanks again,

Jason
 
Question 1 - You can take a fully carbed keg off the gas for a few days without concern.

Question 2 - Not so sure on that one. The problem I see is that it is tough to seal the keg without pressure. So, as you drive it home it is sloshing around, leaking AND absorbing the oxygen in the air. I don't have a good idea - other than take the CO2 with you.
 
#1 no issues

#2 you need some kind of portable CO2, I use a paintball canister, an adapter, and a regulator. Not tons of CO2, but enough for what you're talking about.

Oxidation is a real threat.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. What about something like one of these portable keg chargers as a solution?

Home Brew Premium Regulated CO2 Charger Kit With Gas Disconnect https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WM44HRE/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_AOtGvbE2KE87A
 
chexjc said:
Thanks for the replies, guys. What about something like one of these portable keg chargers as a solution?

Home Brew Premium Regulated CO2 Charger Kit With Gas Disconnect https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WM44HRE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...

It isn't the oxidation so much I would worry about, but as mentioned above the leaking while your driving. Most cornys don't seal very good at all without pressure on them.

What size C02 bottle are you going to buy? If you can get a 5 lb one you could easily take it with you to your rent's place. Other idea would be to bring the fermenter to your house and THEN transfer to keg.

Edit:

Oh and haven't used the product you linked to on Amazon, but seems like it would work fine to purge and provide enough pressure to seal until you can get home.

Good luck and your really going to enjoy kegging. I still bottle a lot of my beers but wouldn't give up the convenience of kegging. I would say though, for the same price you could get an entire 5 lb aluminum bottle, but not the regulator of coarse.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks! I'm really looking forward to taking a little break from bottling. Especially now that I brew twenty minutes away...that makes bottling a 2-3 hour commitment or so, when you tack on the 40-minutes driving time.

It looks like that Amazon product would accept the larger, paintball-sized CO2 tanks, right? That would be pretty convenient. Thought I'm not sure where you buy those?

Also, I'm a little confused on why cornys need the pressure to seal? Mine is coming in the mail today, so maybe I'll understand when I see it :).
 
Another idea!

I'm not entirely opposed to bringing my (I think it's 12lbs) CO2 tank back and forth with me. I don't brew all that often (once a month, maybe).

What if I picked up this budget regulator and just brought the tank with me?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/economy-regulator.html

I'm thinking the regulator is the easiest place to disconnect and reconnect without risk of leaks, right?
 
I'd purge the corny keg with CO2 from your big tank before you leave to fill it. You can also make sure then that the corny holds pressure.

Those little CO2 regulators work great. Use that to put some pressure on the keg after you fill it.

Happy kegging!!
 
I think that budget regulator is your best bet. You just have to be careful to get a good seal every time you reconnect your CO2 tank back to your main regulator.

Also be sure to purge the keg a few times when you first seal it and hit it with CO2. Get all the free O2 out of it as early as possible. That way any sloshing the happens on the drive won't be oxidizing the beer.

The keg will feel like it is sealed when you first close it but it is not an airtight seal until you put it under pressure from the CO2 tank. You'll hear the keg seal "click" when you put it under pressure.
 
hezagenius said:
I think that budget regulator is your best bet. You just have to be careful to get a good seal every time you reconnect your CO2 tank back to your main regulator.

Also be sure to purge the keg a few times when you first seal it and hit it with CO2. Get all the free O2 out of it as early as possible. That way any sloshing the happens on the drive won't be oxidizing the beer.

The keg will feel like it is sealed when you first close it but it is not an airtight seal until you put it under pressure from the CO2 tank. You'll hear the keg seal "click" when you put it under pressure.
Click to expand...

Some notes on purging and venting to get the O2 out of the keg after filling:
  • You need to purge & vent multiple times to get the O2 level close to zero. If you pressurize at 14.7 psi, one purge cycle will only remove 50% of the O2. Two purges will remove 75%. Three purges 87.5%. Four purges 93.75%. Five purges 96.875%. Etc. Five purges at 30 psi will remove 99.6% of the O2. I just use five purges @ 15 psi.
  • It's also imortant to get the N2 and other air components out of the headspace, as any pressure from those will decrease the effective pressure (more correctly partial pressure) of the CO2, and reduce your carb level from your target.

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
Some notes on purging and venting to get the O2 out of the keg after filling:
  • You need to purge & vent multiple times to get the O2 level close to zero. If you pressurize at 14.7 psi, one purge cycle will only remove 50% of the O2. Two purges will remove 75%. Three purges 87.5%. Four purges 93.75%. Five purges 96.875%. Etc. Five purges at 30 psi will remove 99.6% of the O2. I just use five purges @ 15 psi.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of this before, I've just usually done 3 purges @ 20 psi. Where did you learn this? Not doubting you, just curious.
 
heckabrew said:
I've never heard of this before, I've just usually done 3 purges @ 20 psi. Where did you learn this? Not doubting you, just curious.
Click to expand...

It's basic gas partial pressure science. The partial pressure of a single gas in a mixture is equal to the volume percentage of gas in a mixture. So the amount of gas in a mixture can be determined from its partial pressure, or vice versa.

So, if I have 14.7 psia (absolute) of air in my headspace to start, and I add 14.7 psi of CO2, the gauge pressure will be 14.7 psi, and the absolute pressure will be 29.4 psi. The partial pressure of air is 14.7 psi and the partial pressure of CO2 is 14.7 psi. The volume% of air is 14.7/29.4 = 50%, and the volume% of CO2 is also 50%. If I now vent the keg, the pressure will be 14.7 psia (0 psig), and the partial pressure of air will be 7.35 psi, the partial pressure of CO2 will also be 7.35 psi, and the headspace will still contain 50% air and 50% CO2. But, when I vented, I lost 50% of the original air in the headspace, and likewise 50% of the O2, 50% of the N2, and 50% of the minor constituents of air. So, with each venting I lose 50% of the air, O2, N2, etc. remaining after the previous venting.

The general equation for determining the fraction of the initial air or O2 remaining after N pressure and vent cycles is:
(Atm_Press / (Atm_Press + CO2_Press)) ^ N​
Atm_Press = atmospheric pressure = 14.7 psia @ sea level. So in your case, you would have:
(14.7 / (14.7 +20)) ^ 3 = 0.076 => 7.6% of original air and O2 remaining​

Pressurizing and venting a keg creates turbulence in the headspace which will insure the gases are well mixed, and all of the above will be valid.

Brew on :mug:
 
congratulations, you ruined my day by triggering my memory of my thermodynamics and heat & mass transfer courses. goddamn partial pressures....next thing you know i'll be staring at the P-V 3phase curve
 
doug293cz said:
It's basic gas partial pressure science. The partial pressure of a single gas in a mixture is equal to the volume percentage of gas in a mixture. So the amount of gas in a mixture can be determined from its partial pressure, or vice versa.



So, if I have 14.7 psia (absolute) of air in my headspace to start, and I add 14.7 psi of CO2, the gauge pressure will be 14.7 psi, and the absolute pressure will be 29.4 psi. The partial pressure of air is 14.7 psi and the partial pressure of CO2 is 14.7 psi. The volume% of air is 14.7/29.4 = 50%, and the volume% of CO2 is also 50%. If I now vent the keg, the pressure will be 14.7 psia (0 psig), and the partial pressure of air will be 7.35 psi, the partial pressure of CO2 will also be 7.35 psi, and the headspace will still contain 50% air and 50% CO2. But, when I vented, I lost 50% of the original air in the headspace, and likewise 50% of the O2, 50% of the N2, and 50% of the minor constituents of air. So, with each venting I lose 50% of the air, O2, N2, etc. remaining after the previous venting.



The general equation for determining the fraction of the initial air or O2 remaining after N pressure and vent cycles is:

(Atm_Press / (Atm_Press + CO2_Press)) ^ N​

Atm_Press = atmospheric pressure = 14.7 psia @ sea level. So in your case, you would have:

(14.7 / (14.7 +20)) ^ 3 = 0.076 => 7.6% of original air and O2 remaining​



Pressurizing and venting a keg creates turbulence in the headspace which will insure the gases are well mixed, and all of the above will be valid.



Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...


Thanks for the thorough explanation. Makes sense now. I will now be purging 5 times at 15 psi. Glad that we have all of these educated people on this forum. I'd be lost without it.
 
hezagenius said:
I think that budget regulator is your best bet. You just have to be careful to get a good seal every time you reconnect your CO2 tank back to your main regulator.

Also be sure to purge the keg a few times when you first seal it and hit it with CO2. Get all the free O2 out of it as early as possible. That way any sloshing the happens on the drive won't be oxidizing the beer.
Click to expand...

Welp, after going through some old threads and suggestions around here, I'd gone yesterday and ordered this CO2 injector from MoreBeer.

I will sanitize and purge the keg before I leave my apartment (does that make sense to do?) and then after racking, use the charger to purge a few times and create a seal before driving (ever so carefully) back home. It sounds like just a couple squirts of the charger at a time is enough to create serving pressure, so I'm guessing if I'm careful this will work out alright.

As a benefit, it sounds like this thing may be fun for bringing the keg to parties and whatnot.

In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for a separate tank and regulator on craigslist. This darn kegerator cost me way more than anticipated to get up and running haha. I still need to add a damn tap to my tower!
 
One thing to keep in mind is that the beer will begin absorbing the CO2 right away so you might need to charge it several times on your drive home to maintain enough pressure in the keg to keep it sealed.
 
hezagenius said:
One thing to keep in mind is that the beer will begin absorbing the CO2 right away so you might need to charge it several times on your drive home to maintain enough pressure in the keg to keep it sealed.
Click to expand...

Oh boy. Well I suppose I could do that! Fortunatley it's a nice country back-road for most of the trip, so there are plenty of pull-off opportunities should something go wrong. o_O

If this ends up being a big enough of a PITA, I'll find room for the fermentation chamber in my apartment. Though, my girlfriend won't be happy about that.
 
Those chargers are great and I wouldn't worry too much about the 20 min drive home. One thing to note is that I've found the mini CO2 cannisters don't form a great seal and are usually empty the next day. Not a terrible expense, but it's good to have a few extras.
 
Jordo_nb said:
Those chargers are great and I wouldn't worry too much about the 20 min drive home. One thing to note is that I've found the mini CO2 cannisters don't form a great seal and are usually empty the next day. Not a terrible expense, but it's good to have a few extras.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks! For the time being, I'm only brewing a batch a month or so (that might increase now that I'm kegging :D), so a pack of 10 would probably last me a year at least.
 

Similar threads

Jordan Richendrfer
The Ultimate Soda Water Setup?
Replies
2
Views
509
IslandLizard
IslandLizard
kev211
Beer Gas
Replies
1
Views
246
Dr_Jeff
D
Positronic_Matrix
Endless Soda Water: Carbonation Unexpectedly Low
Replies
17
Views
2K
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
brew_mama
Out of ideas - flat beer from keg
Replies
3
Views
711
day_trippr
day_trippr
R
Keg Poppets
Replies
6
Views
1K
Brewdog80
B
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top