Things are going to get complicated. Imperial Mayan Latte Stout

Hey everyone.

So, I got this idea in my head after a few servings of Abraxas from Perennial in St. Louis. How about a Mayan Latte Stout? For those unfamiliar with Abraxas, it is an imperial stout brewed with cinnamon, vanilla, cocoa nibs, and ancho chilies. It is absolutely superb.

Well, I have a great imperial stout recipe that I traditionally use that I think I will use as the grain bill for this, but am looking for help with the amounts of all of the extras.

Batch size: 5.5gal
OG: 1.111
FG: 1.029
SRM: 53
IBU: 99
ABV:~10.5%
Efficiency- 75%

16lb 00oz (76%)- 2-Row
02lb 00oz (10%)- Chocolate Rye (270L)
01lb 00oz (04%)- Roasted Barley (300L)
01lb 00oz (04%)- Crystal 120L
01lb 00oz (04%)- Flaked Rye
01lb 00oz - Belgain Candi Sugar (added d4 of fermentation)
01lb 00oz - Lactose (added during boil or primary)

Bittering Hop: Columus-90IBU (time and amount dependent on AA value)
Flavoring Hop: Fuggles- 2oz-15min, ~8-10IBU

Pitching onto an active WLP001 yeast cake

Additions-
6 Vanilla Beans Scrapped
3-4oz Cinnamon (Whole Sticks)
2-4oz Cocoa Nibs (probably taking it light on the nibs, this stout already adds a ton of cocoa flavor)
4-5oz Dried Ancho Chilies, roughly chopped
4oz Sump Coffee Espresso beans, lightly crushed, or a few cups of brewed espresso.

I know the base recipe already creates very chocolate-y and slightly espresso like flavors. So, I would love help with the other additions (namely the amounts of lactose, vanilla, cinnamon, nibs, chilies, and espresso).

Thanks in advance. I am super stoked about brewing this later in the summer.

I've made a number of stouts, porters and even a blonde beer with coffee and whole beans is the way to go. Just add them to the fermentor for 4-7 days, you can use a bag if you want to taste and make sure the flavor doesnt get too strong. I've found 3-4oz in a stout is perfect and cant really overdue it though.

Nibs and Vanilla, (usually 4oz Nibs and 2 vanilla beans for me) I always boil them in some water then toss them in after cooling to sanitize and extract flavors. Might not want to do this for the chilis. Personally, I would dip those in sanitizer and just dump them in a bag for easy removal if needed. I make a mexican hto chocolate stout this way. Just keep in mind that it can take months for the flavors to meld well and the beer to come into its prime. Dont be frustrated if its a peppery mess at the start. Also, DO NOT KEG any pepper beer. The pepper compounds will settle near the bottom and the 2ne half will be undrinkable hot sauce

I would recommend all of these additions cold side though

Thanks for the thoughts. For your stouts, were they imperial or more traditional gravity? I just want to scale correctly.
I made a test batch a while back and it did take a bit of time for it to mature. Makes me wonder if I should add certain additions at different times..Example: add chilies and cinnamon right after primary for 7 days, remove, 1month later, add cocoa nibs, vanilla, and coffee for 7 days, remove and wait another 2-3wks).

Traditionally, I just boil the chilies, vanilla, cocoa nibs, and cinnamon in a bit of water and then add in a mesh bag of some sort...though I wonder if I should throw them in loose to provide increased surface area for flavor extraction.

My last ancho stout I made I kegged and it didn't get much in the way of spice at the bottom that I noticed (granted, I bottled the last 2 gallons off the keg).

The amounts were for a 5gal Imperial Breakfast stout with Maple syrup (no chilies in that one though). I guess I'd add the nibs coffee and vanilla a week or so before bottling since that's been my usual method and its never gotten too overboard for me. The chilis I wouldnt be too sure about since I've only tried one method so far

Thanks for the info. After some research and consulting some guys from my old homebrew club, they said that a cold-brew concentrate may be best option to use. I have read that many people get a bell pepper flavor from whole beans which is something I want to avoid (I don't want it interfering with the ancho). What is your experience with cold-brew vs whole bean?

After some reading, I may do a cold-brew with a blend of lighter and darker roasts and add 2-3 cups of cold-brew and 1.5cu of fresh brewed espresso from a local roaster into secondary before kegging.

Thoughts?

Also, I know some people so adding cinnamon sticks are a no-go in secondary or a tincture as it adds a "red hot" candy flavor. So, thinking maybe adding it with 5-10min left in the boil?

Also, someone showed me this for the cocoa nibs and vanilla. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way

Thoughts? Its been a while since I got excited by a brew, but this has got me figgity like a fat kid at a candy store.

Did you ever brew this? How did it turn out?

It is on the docket for early October, that way, it will be ready to keg after Thanksgiving!

Finally got around to brewing this beer a few weeks ago. I made a few last minute adjustments and I imagine it is for the better.

Batch size: 5.5gal
OG: 1.103
estimated FG: 1.023
SRM: 58
IBU: 82
ABV:~11%
Efficiency- 75%
Mashed in at 154F

14lb 00oz (68%)- 2-Row
02lb 25oz (11%)- Chocolate Rye (270L)
00lb 75oz (04%)- Roasted Barley (500L)
01lb 00oz (05%)- Crystal 120L
01lb 00oz (05%)- Flaked Rye
01lb 00oz - Light DME
00lb 08oz - Lactose (added during boil or primary)


Bittering Hop: Columus-75IBU (time and amount dependent on AA value)
Flavoring Hop: Northern Brewer- 1oz-10min, ~7 IBU

Additions-
1oz of Cinnamon sticks (~6 sticks) added at 10min.

What's left to do:
Vanilla bean- 2 beans, scraped and quartered, added to a little vodka.
Ancho Chili- 1.25oz, de-stemmed, de-seeded, roughly chopped. 1.125oz chili added, .125oz seeds. Added to a little vodka
cocoa nibs- 2oz added to a little vodka.

All 3 of the spiced above were mixed with approximately 150-200mL vodka. I will let it sit for a few days before adding the entire thing to secondary.

Coffee: Looking at adding ~32oz of robust cold-brewed extract coffee. Going to consult a local roaster to get their opinion.

Fermented with a healthy slurry of WLP005.

Personally I wouldn't use the lactose, a high FG is going to make it sweet anyway and 8oz in a 5.5gal imperial stout dosn't seem worth it.

If I wanted creamy latte quality I would use wheat and flaked barely, Rye is going to have the opposite affect in drying the beer.

I would probably use a combination of more malty base malts, such as Maris otter and munich too.

I have use cold brew before, but I never find cold brew really gives the expresso taste you are probably after. Personally i would brew an expresso or aeropress and then filter it through several chemex filters to get ride of the oils and crema.

Edit: I see you have brewed it. How did turn out?

So far so good. It's two weeks into primary. Made the alcohol tincture with the ancho, cocoa nibs, and vanilla. So as of now, everything is on the up and up. I'll keep you updated.

So I have added the extract/tincture (and the solid ingredients) to the beer and it has been sitting for about a week. I took a sample....and it is freakin delicious. Big body but not cloying and big chocolate flavors with a strong almost overbearing cinnamon presence. Chocolate and cinnamon compete for the dominate flavor while vanilla sits comfortably in the background. The ancho is difficult to detect, but I am planning on leaving the ingredients in the beer for another week. To suppress a bit of the cinnamon, I may add another 0.5oz ancho chili (more seeds this time) and an additional vanilla bean.

If I was to brew this again (oh and trust me, I will), I would cut the cinnamon down by 25% (50% if you don't really like cinnamon much).

Can't wait to keg this bad boy in about 1.5wks.

There is a lot going on in this beer and I am now hesitant to add coffee. It is so good and I am afraid of messing it up haha.

Yeah I don't think you need coffee and chillies. You say you already can't pick out the chillies so adding coffee won't help. Chillies flavour can be quite subtle in a stout unless you use a hot variety in which case you are getting heat not flavour. If you know its in the beer and you can't taste it then I suspect you need more.

I added an extra ounce of anchos (with seeds) and 1 extra vanilla bean to some vodka this morning and am going to add that to the beer when I get home from work.

I agree I don't think I am going to add the coffee. However, since I am kegging the beer, it will be easy to do some individual bottle experiments. Once carbonated, I think I will bottle a few bombers with either cold-brew coffee or an ounce or so of Tia Maria and let them sit for a few weeks and get an idea of what I could do next time I brew this.

So, I sent this out to see how it managed against a BJCP judge. Apparently I didn't clearly indicate the spices added because the judge seemed a little surprised some of aromatics.

However, that being said, it still scored a 40! (It only got an 8/12 on the aroma, which I think could be made better with a) better explanation of the beer, and b) less vanilla in the recipe). So, overall, super stoked about how it was received.

I also took it out to Perennial Brewing to have the brewers try it and compare it to Abraxas. Again, heavy on vanilla, but they said it was a ringer for vanilla abraxas...Which you know, is still pretty cool. So there ya go!

man this is awesome. Do you mind if I try brewing this as well? I'm super new though. Do you think a beginner would be able to brew it. @KyleWolf

Any tips ?