Just curious. How many batches before you're not a beginner?

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VegasBrew1

VegasBrew1

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I'm working on my 9th batch. I have made great strides. Just curious when did you folks consider yourself an intermediate? Cheers.
 
sboyajian said:
When you stop worrying about if you are a beginner. ;)

But in all seriousness, I stopped considering myself a beginner when I stopped fretting about every little thing and just started enjoying the process.
Click to expand...

I very much look forward to that day. I noticed even my second batch was MUCH less precise than the first. Third batch on Friday. I guess I'll strike a balance when I ball a batch up from not paying enough attention to it.
 
Your question is a good one. Almost everyone will give you a different answer. A few folks that have been brewing for over 20 years might be inclined to tell you that you have to spend X-amount of time brewing before you are no longer considered a novice.

I disagree with all of that. Like others has suggested, it is all about understanding and having some level of experience. There is no education that compares to actual experience. If you've gathered some experience, then you are doing good. Every batch offers new experience. You can gain new experience online through sites like this one. But that means little until you tested it yourself. However, once you have, you have that under your belt.

In the end, if you feel confident that you can brew great beer, backed by proof of great beer you've enjoyed repeatedly. Then you are an experienced brewer, to some degree. Maybe not a great degree, or maybe of a moderate degree. Some degree for sure.

Does it really matter? If you've made good beer you love, what is the issue? Nobody is keeping score. If you want a score, enter a competition. Other than that, My only suggestion is to relax, have a home brew, and don't worry about it.

EDIT: Seriously though, what does it matter what anyone considers your brew-level to be. In the end the only one you need to please is you. Do you like the beer you are brewing? If you do, then you win! If not, then hang around. You'll catch on to something that works for you. It's inevitable.

In the end, home brewing is about enjoying the experience of making your own beer. Sometimes that beer is superb, sometimes not. Most of the time it is better than commercial swill offered in 30-packs. Even when it doesn't go as planned. In the long-term, I have found that my worst beers are better than the most expensive beers at the beer store. Through that, I am verified for brewing. Your mileage may vary, but it works out for me.

In the end, don't take up home-brewing with the idea you'll save money. Unless the only beers you like are barleywines. Then you might save money, if you have patience and do all-grain brewing. Otherwise, nope.
 
Chadwick said:
Your question is a good one. Almost everyone will give you a different answer. A few folks that have been brewing for over 20 years might be inclined to tell you that you have to spend X-amount of time brewing before you are no longer considered a novice.

I disagree with all of that. Like others has suggested, it is all about understanding and having some level of experience. There is no education that compares to actual experience. If you've gathered some experience, then you are doing good. Every batch offers new experience. You can gain new experience online through sites like this one. But that means little until you tested it yourself. However, once you have, you have that under your belt.

In the end, if you feel confident that you can brew great beer, backed by proof of great beer you've enjoyed repeatedly. Then you are an experienced brewer, to some degree. Maybe not a great degree, or maybe of a moderate degree. Some degree for sure.

Does it really matter? If you've made good beer you love, what is the issue? Nobody is keeping score. If you want a score, enter a competition. Other than that, My only suggestion is to relax, have a home brew, and don't worry about it.

EDIT: Seriously though, what does it matter what anyone considers your brew-level to be. In the end the only one you need to please is you. Do you like the beer you are brewing? If you do, then you win! If not, then hang around. You'll catch on to something that works for you. It's inevitable.

In the end, home brewing is about enjoying the experience of making your own beer. Sometimes that beer is superb, sometimes not. Most of the time it is better than commercial swill offered in 30-packs. Even when it doesn't go as planned. In the long-term, I have found that my worst beers are better than the most expensive beers at the beer store. Through that, I am verified for brewing. Your mileage may vary, but it works out for me.

In the end, don't take up home-brewing with the idea you'll save money. Unless the only beers you like are barleywines. Then you might save money, if you have patience and do all-grain brewing. Otherwise, nope.
Click to expand...

This is a great thought and well spoken! As a new brewer to the game, the joy in home brewing for me is about the craft. Taking some stuff, turning into other DELICIOUS stuff on your own, and doing so independently is a bit inspirational.

I was having a conversation with a friend today who wants to learn woodwork. He wants to start out with bookshelves and boxes. I was explaining to him that making beer is the same thing using a different medium. Making beer embodies concepts like self reliance, ingenuity, problem solving, and compromise. These are skills that some in our society, myself included, have lost touch with a little bit.

In making beer, I find that get to be creative and express myself while doing something practical and free of commercial influence. The brewer gets to choose their own ingredients and make as much or little change to any recipe they desire. I think that the freedom to brew your own beer the way you want is incredibly liberating in how when you brew, no one tells you what do. In a time in my own life where I find myself perpetually and relentlessly governed, the crafting of my own beer is truly a fantastic reprieve.

Now I'm ready for a pint.:D
 
When you can make the same beer twice without flaws and like it then maybe your no longer a beginner. Ev eryone grows at there own pace and when your comfortable with what your doing and not worried about messing it up then you have made the step up.:)
 
When you can understand why something happened and know what to do to change it without stressing. When brew day is a relaxing enjoyable experience.
 
brewbama said:
When you can understand why something happened and know what to do to change it without stressing. When brew day is a relaxing enjoyable experience.
Click to expand...

And this is why I home brew. It is relaxing and enjoyable. You know that you are creating beer goodness :)

Chadwick is spot on... :rockin:

Now back to my beer :mug:
 
One of the things I like about brewing is that I finally realized that it's pretty easy to make beer, but it's pretty tough to make good beer. So when you make a really good beer, it's an exciting achievement - AND you get to drink great beer! As the Mongster would say: BOOM!

Another thing I like is that just when you think you are getting pretty good, you do a recipe with a new yeast, or a new ingredient, or you use a different process to get a different effect, and everything goes haywire! BOOM - you're a beginner again!

So I don't think there's a mountain you finally summit, I think you rise over the crest to see the new dawn of your own achievement many times.

And what's better than that?
 
All shades of grey that will differ for everyone.

As far as not being a beginner I would say when you're capable of brewing by a recipe (grain/extract bill, hop amount amounts and times, steeping temp or mash temp, etc), but that's the only instruction that you need. You don't need to be reminded to sanitize or to chill your wort or anything like that. Hopefully most folks would reach that threshold after just a couple batches (assuming that they brew with any regularity).
 
I just bought a 230,000 BTU propane burner. I now consider myself an expert ;)

There's all kinds of different levels. I've done 30 or so (really lost track) batches and have been brewing for a year now and it's been all extract. So I may call myself intermediate with extract.

Now I'm moving onto BIAB and I'm back to beginner. I really just want to make good beer though :)
 
I felt more like an intermediate brewer when I was able to follow recipes that I made, or found here on the forum, without any instructions on it at all. When I first started, I was in need of step-by-step instructions (ie- steep for 30 minutes, bring to a boil, etc). Once I no longer needed that, I didn't feel like a novice in the actual brewing process.

The thing is, there is always something new to learn- all-grain brewing, water chemistry, building a control panel, yeast ranching- so I always am learning something new or getting new ideas so I'm always a beginner in some aspect of brewing!
 
Everyone would have their own measure of when they would no longer be a beginner. For me I want to enter competitions this year if I take a first place with one of my beers in a competition I will no longer consider myself a beginner. Not that external validation is needed, I love my beer and it tastes good, but someone that doesn't feel like they need to be polite telling me my beer is really good allows me to *know* that my tastes and experiences with my beer match what others taste and experience.

I will move from Beginner to Beginner First Class if I take a 1st place. Once I rebrew the beer I took first place with, re-enter it into another competition at a different location and different time, and take first place again or a best of show, then I will fully consider myself no longer a beginner.

*Disclaimer* Competition brewing is not the yard stick of expertise in brewing, if you are happy with being a faster runner than Usain Bolt and you never try and enter the Olympics then thats what makes you happy. Doesn't mean you aren't a faster runner than Usain Bolt.
 
100 :)

I have been brewing sine 2002
I am on batch 96

I brewed a lot more before "the boy" was born
I will brew a lot more once he can help
I am still learning new things

I have 'feelings' about anyone who claims to be an expert - I don't trust them......

I think the "expert" level is something granted to you by others - like a College when you finish your PHD, or the AHA by giving you a Gold medal....
Or a Queen besots upon you, like a knighthood

Just my 2 cents - another $1.50 and you can get a cup of coffee
S
 
Now that I'm successfully building my own AG recipes, I no longer feel like a beginner. But I only know probably 15%? of what there is to know about brewing at this point.

It only took 5 months of being on here to go from a terrible first extract batch to awesome AG batches.
 
Yooper said:
I was able to follow recipes that I made, or found here on the forum, without any instructions on it at all.

...

The thing is, there is always something new to learn
Click to expand...

Yooper's statement is a big part of the process. When you realize there is always more to learn (if you want to), but you can consistently make beer you enjoy, you are progressing.

The thing I would add to the list is the ability to teach. When you can successfully teach someone else the process of brewing, you are no longer a beginner. Most people can help someone follow a recipe. Answering someone's questions about the recipe and the process requires a deeper understanding.
 
My epiphany was when I poured away a commercial beer and opened a home-brew... No longer a beginner but it will take a couple of lifetimes to become an expert... This hobby, this obsession....if the learning ever stopped I would stop brewing!
 
steveoatley said:
I think the "expert" level is something granted to you by others...
Click to expand...

Somewhere in mid-life, I came to the conclusion that allowing anyone else to determine the value I contribute to any of life's pursuits is damaging to my spirit. There are very, very few other mortals capable and worthy of making such judgments.

With experience should come wisdom, and with wisdom an ironically greater sense of humility, rather than less as one might expect. It's the old "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know" thing.

If too philosophical, I apologize and return you promptly to HBT programming (already in progress).
 
Im an expert brewer according to the natty light drinking friends I have over on occasion when brewing! Only thing I've brewed they drink is creme ale, yet all I've offered them is quite tasty IMO.

That said..
I don't feel like a beginner anymore as Ive become comfortable with the process and brew days are no longer stressful. Along with being comfortable with your process, I feel your no longer a beginner if you can decide you want to brew "x" style of beer then find a recipe online and make a go at it without having to dig deep on other details once you have ingredient list.
 
Novice
Apprentice
Expert
Master
Grandmaster
Elder
Legendary
Glorious Lord

I say most homebrewers are Apprentices after being a Novice for their first couple of batches then after that the sky is the limit. Cheers!
 
Seriously? You don't know the formula? THE FORMULA?

{[Batches of (Yooper+Revv+Melana+Mr.Pap)] / 4 } / [Your batches]

If it's less than 1, you're not a beginner.
 
desabat said:
Novice
Apprentice
Expert
Master
Grandmaster
Elder
Legendary
Glorious Lord

I say most homebrewers are Apprentices after being a Novice for their first couple of batches then after that the sky is the limit. Cheers!
Click to expand...

Could I substitute Glorious Lord for Fabulous Lord? I think that Fabulous Lord has much more gravity when you introduce yourself as Fabulous Lord Arkot Ramathorn.
 
VegasBrew1 said:
I'm working on my 9th batch. I have made great strides. Just curious when did you folks consider yourself an intermediate? Cheers.
Click to expand...

White belt: Gets a homebrew kit for Christmas and uses it. Checks fermentor 50 times a batch and worries if the beer is infected or not.
Yellow belt: Understands and abides by RDWHAHB, BDMA and DFTF. Understands the difference between clean/sanitized/sterile. Has a solid understanding of how clean various equipment needs to be. Understands how important proper fermentation temperature is.
Green belt: Begins to delve into the world of water chemistry and good recipe formulation. Has a solid understanding of the entire process of all-grain brewing and can adjust for SG during the brew day.
Blue belt: Has built his or her own all-grain brew rig and can brew any style on it with solid results. Efficiency numbers are rock solid so there is no longer any need to adjust for SG during the brew day. Has successfully done step mashes and decoction mashes with good results. Can formulate good beer recipes with little outside references.
Red belt: Has become a BJCP Certified judge, can pick out off-flavors with ease and can formulate recipes without consulting any reference materials.
Black belt: Has malted the barley that they have grown, dried the hops that they have grown, harvested wild yeast and have separated good strains from bad strains, have brewed beer using a fire pit, fermented and lagered beer with a lagering cave and the beer comes out exquisite. Can drink any beer and can formulate a clone recipe with a few improvements to the original to suit their tastes.
 
I don't know where I am in the ranks nor do I care. I do know this. I have had at least 8 different brands of 2 dollar beers from the package store this past week. Not one of them is close to being as good as the one's we make here at home. I used to think some of those 2 dollar ones were the best ever. Maybe it is just because we have very good water here.
 
I felt I graduated from the novice ranks after I had done the following:
  1. Conducted and reported a relatively well controlled, quantitative comparative brewing experiment.
  2. Conducted a brewing demonstration at an AHA "Learn to Homebrew Day" event.
  3. Felt confident answering other brewers questions related to several different aspects of brewing.
  4. Could consistently make good beer based on recipes.
Still have a long ways to go before I would consider myself a master brewer. Lots of styles yet to attempt, and lots of palate refinement to achieve.

Brew on :mug:
 
When you cease with the ugly baby syndrome and admit that even though you brew good beer, you're nowhere near as good as some of the pros (maybe better than some too though).

And when you know enough about brewing to stop calling BMC bad beer.
 
I guess I'm still a beginner...........

What do RDWHAHB, BDMA and DFTF mean? Iv'e been trying for months to decipher these.
 

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