Is Sparging Obsolete?

I've been doing BIAB since I started all grain brewing. I originally sparged due to too small kettle size, and now do full volume.

Conversion is exactly the same with full volume or sparging unless you increase your
Boil time. The speed of conversion is unchanged.


Sparging is essentially designed for doing a less than full volume mash. With a less than full volume mash, the first wort is very rich and full of sugar, so consequently there is a lot of residual sugar in the grain bed. Sparging washes this out, and that's all it apparently does. The net recovery is the same as far as I can tell. Gallon for gallon, it appears that the pre boil gravity is the same. I could increase my strike water and increase my boil time, or I could sparge with that amount of water and the net result would be the same in my opinion.

I originally was intending to "upgrade" to a mash tun and sparging, and go to an entirely conventional brewing procedure. As time went on, I've come to realize that this is a complete waste of time and money.

Full volume mash saves time and yields the same result. The bag system allows a finer crush, which speeds up conversion. It reduces the amount of equipment and the amount of time and the amount of clean up.

There is obviously some pleasure associated with using traditional methodology, with doing it the way it has always been done, but beyond that, I can't see any reason at all to do a mash and sparge system, and quite a few good reasons no to. Limited size of the mash tun is about the ONLY reason to sparge as far as I'm concerned.

For me sparging is obsolete............... how about you? and why?


H.W.

Owly055 pulls pin on the grenade and tosses it into the room.... fireworks to ensue...

I will say as a BIABer, I don't see the need to sparge. If you are doing a larger volume I am sure it helps due to equipment limitations.

One issue with doing a full-volume mash is that you will likely need to muck with your pH more than if you do a batch sparge. For most beers except very pale ones, I don't need to do anything with the pH because my water is pretty forgiving. But if I'm doing a full-volume mash, I'll need to acidify my mash more, since the malts will use up all their buffers and leave my pH too high.

Anyone doing 15-20 gallon batches without doing a sparge - or using a crane?

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

The only concern for me would be the breaking down of starches to long chain sugars to short chain sugars. Part of the reason for having a mash between 1 and 1.5 qts per pound of grain is to make sure the enzymes are in concentrated to do the work on the starches/sugars. You might be getting full conversion, but that doesn't mean you are getting a highly fermentable wort. I'm not saying you aren't getting the wort profile you are looking for, but that would be my primary concern.

Has the post-fermentation final gravity of these beers been where you expected?

In the few BIAB brews I did I sparged. I may try doing a full volume BIAB some day but so far have only small batches in the kitchen.

BTW, I am not one of those that thinks BIAB is "So much easier".. I dislike messing with the hot, heavy, sticky, messy, bag of grain. Yes it requires less equipment but....

It is so much easier to take my mash tun to the compost pile and dump it. A quick rinse with a garden hose and done....

kh54s10 said:

It is so much easier to take my mash tun to the compost pile and dump it. A quick rinse with a garden hose and done....

Click to expand...

If you know anyone that has chickens or other small livestock, give them your 10-40 lbs of spent grain in trade for eggs or something. They love it.

I sparge only to get to my initial boil volume.
I'm lazy and don't calculate grain absorption. I just start with 7 gal. of water and when I'm done mashing, I see how much is in the boil kettle and add hot tap water to the the grains to "sparge", to get to my initial boil volume of 7.5 gallons.

Owly thinks BIAB is a cause to champion. It's a common theme in his posts. In the Zymatic thread he assumes someone looks down on him for BIAB brewing. He does small batches so a lot of his analysis doesn't consider the merits of certain processes for larger batches.

He's a bright guy with lots of good ideas, but if you're not a small batch biab brewer with an eye for doing brewdays as quickly as possible, he may not exactly represent your POV.

Also, don't bring up extract brewing to him. LOL...

b-boy said:

Anyone doing 15-20 gallon batches without doing a sparge - or using a crane?

Click to expand...

Planning a 15.5 gallon (1/2 Keg) BIAB batch for tomorrow. 30 -35 pound grain bill, no crane required at all, not that big a deal really. A five gallon full keg weighs 40 - 50 pounds, I never hear anyone say not to keg, as they are too heavy when full?

My last batch was a 20g batch of pale ale - done with a 15g keggle mashtun. I do a single LARGE mash, then sparge numerous times to get my boil volume.

So yes, I need to sparge a bunch.

wilserbrewer said:

Planning a 15.5 gallon (1/2 Keg) BIAB batch for tomorrow. 30 -35 pound grain bill, no crane required at all, not that big a deal really. A five gallon full keg weighs 40 - 50 pounds, I never hear anyone say not to keg, as they are too heavy when full?

Click to expand...

They aren't 170F either. And your 30-35lb grainbill is going to be holding 35+lbs of water weight. So that's a 60-70lb 170F monster. I have one of your bags, I know they can handle it, but I'm not sure I could tbh.

As an edit and out of respect, I should include that this is exactly what your pulley setups are designed for..so it works great if you can set one up above your kettle...and is exactly what I'd do.

Sparging increases efficiency. When you don't sparge you are essentially throwing out a bunch of the residual sugars.

To some this is no big deal. Some also say that a no-sparge process presents better finished beer flavor.

If you don't mind adding a bit of extra grain, it's a very viable, simple, and fast process to use. If you just can't stand to see all of that wort remain on the grain when you dump it, or if you want to pinch pennies by using a bit less grain, then sparing might be you preferred option.

I've done a few small batches BIAB and I've always dunked my bag in sparge water and combined with the first runnings. Mostly because I batch sparge in my cooler mash tun, and it feels natural to rinse the sugars out of the grain the same way.

I know another person who does full batch BIAB and never sparges. I'm not sure he even knew it was an option or how to do it. He just got into the hobby starting out with BIAB and had a really large (and cool) stainless kettle and just does it as simple as possible.

jbaysurfer said:

They aren't 170F either. And your 30-35lb grainbill is going to be holding 35+lbs of water weight. So that's a 60-70lb 170F monster. I have one of your bags, I know they can handle it, but I'm not sure I could tbh.

As an edit and out of respect, I should include that this is exactly what your pulley setups are designed for..so it works great if you can set one up above your kettle...and is exactly what I'd do.

Click to expand...

So I can either use a cooler, or rig up a block and tackle to deal with a 170F dripping wet pendulum swinging around in my garage. I'm assuming I'll have to bear hug it to get all the liquid out too.

I'll stick with my cooler.

b-boy said:

Anyone doing 15-20 gallon batches without doing a sparge - or using a crane?

Click to expand...

You say this like we all don't have cranes or something....

I don't know if it was your intention or not, but to me, this post is essentially saying, "I'm right, go ahead and try to prove me wrong. All you're doing is wasting time and money if you're not doing it how I'm doing it."

I'm not saying the discussion isn't worth having, but the way you wrote your post is not likely to lead to a useful discussion. How can one offer up pros when you've already concluded there are none? Using terms like obsolete and implying that "upgrading" is nothing but a complete waste of time and money is bound to make people defensive and/or equally argumentative, which leads to bickering without a focus on the topic at hand.

How do you control mash thickness the grain to water ratio in the mash? Without any control of that how do you control fermentability of the wort? Wont you have to add more minerals to keep mash ph in line?

(My time is cheap, and find decoction mashing fun. So saving time is not a high priority for me.)

RmikeVT said:

Disclaimer: I am not a scientist.

The only concern for me would be the breaking down of starches to long chain sugars to short chain sugars. Part of the reason for having a mash between 1 and 1.5 qts per pound of grain is to make sure the enzymes are in concentrated to do the work on the starches/sugars. You might be getting full conversion, but that doesn't mean you are getting a highly fermentable wort. I'm not saying you aren't getting the wort profile you are looking for, but that would be my primary concern.

Has the post-fermentation final gravity of these beers been where you expected?

Click to expand...

Howdy RmikeVT. While I don't do full volume because of equipment limitations, I have done 1.75-2.00 qt/gal. No problems with FG here. Last one at 1.8 qt/lb, and with a 30 minute mash, ended at 1.012.

I'm not sure if I'm going to add anything useful but here are some facts:

First BIAB: 70% efficiency when trying for 75%
Second BIAB, Same equipment: 77% when trying for 75%

Difference?

Spot on control of the Mash in, rest, and out temps and times.

TexasWine said:

Howdy RmikeVT. While I don't do full volume because of equipment limitations, I have done 1.75-2.00 qt/gal. No problems with FG here. Last one at 1.8 qt/lb, and with a 30 minute mash, ended at 1.012.

Click to expand...

Pretty solid. What was your mash temp?

FWIW, here are the first few batches I have done, all full volume BIAB. All pitched with rehydrated dry yeast (S04, S05 or Notty), controlled ferment temps at 65F.

Mash OG FG
Cent 153 1.046 1.013
Kona 154 1.057 1.016
Okt 154 1.055 1.010
Ora 154 1.061 1.014
Rye 154 1.066 1.010
DF6 153 1.059 1.010
RHR 153 1.056 1.010

WAIT! You can't just drop a bombshell like that an leave. Suggesting that sparging is obsolete is like sacrilege. You have to follow up with telling them that the hour long mash is a waste of time because 20 minutes gets full conversion and the same FG.

I apologize if I've offended anybody, but my original post was intended to stimulate discussion by being intentionally controversial...... these threads are no fun without some controversy ;-)

I loved the comment from Foosier... about pulling the pin and tossing a grenade into the room....... it hit the nail right on the head and dead square!
.........................
It might be worth mentioning that I'm the kind of guy who attacks and destroys hornet nests at least once a year (twice this year), with no protective clothing and no chemicals, and I've NEVER gotten stung in the process. My weapons, a vacuum cleaner and a shovel........ If beyond the reach of power a fly swatter instead of a vacuum. Just like a dog, once you've got them on the run, you've won the battle! I've done this for over 20 years without a single sting!
...................................


I brew very small batches (2.5 gallon), on a weekly basis. Note that I did mention that equipment size was the main argument for using a mash and sparge system. I sparged originally for that reason.

Enzyme density..... is an old argument that has been disproved by testing, and can be observed directly by the time conversion takes, and the ultimate efficiency. Both hold up well in a full volume mash.

Worth fermentability is an interesting argument....... I hadn't heard that one in terms of mash ratio. Perhaps I need to do a BIAB batch with the amounts of water per pound of grain you guys do who mash and sparge. I'd love to see a reference in support.

I am an advocate of BIAB for it's sheer simplicity........ I simply dump out the grain in the compost pile. turn the bag inside out, and shake, then rinse in cold water and hang out to dry. About the same thing people do with their mash tuns.

There is no doubt that I could get more sugars out of the grain by sparging it..... we all could. Sparge with more water, and you have to boil longer. I wonder which is cheaper.... grain or propane? I pay $25 for a 50 pound bag of 2 row. It's a "no brainer" on my end.

As for having a "crane"...... I obviously don't need one. The guys doing 20 gallon brews are humping a mash tun around full of wet grain that weighs in at around 70-80 pounds depending on how big a beer they are making. I've stacked many thousands of bales of hay weighing in this range, so I know what you are going through. an 80 pound bag of wet grain would be far worse! It's an excellent case!

BUT is there really any reason that full volume must equate to BIAB? Look at the Braumeister. This isn't about BIAB versus conventional mash & sparge, it's about full volume mash versus mash and sparge. The Braumeister is really a fancy BIAB system that uses screens instead of a bag, and recirculates the strike water / wort. The use of screens and the recirculation system........ and automation, are really the only differences.
It is my intention to build a reverse circulation system based on the same principle, but configured somewhat differently, and abandon the bag. Simplicity is great........ up to a point.


H.W.

Sparging can be shown mathematically to improve efficiency of sugar extraction from mashes http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis.

Whether sparging is right for you depends on whether or not maximizing efficiency is more important than other constraint/considerations than may apply to your situation or equipment set. Some of it comes down to equipment volume constraints, and a lot of it is personal preference or how much you value time vs. $$. There is no universal right or wrong answer. Clear explanations of the pros/cons of different procedures are helpful to others in making decisions. "I'm right, you're an idiot" statements contribute nothing useful to anyone wanting to gain helpful information.

Historically I BIAB and sparge primarily because my previous mash tun/BK was limited in volume. I have a bigger pot now, so may, or may not try no sparge. Either way I will have beer! Do what works for you and makes you happier.

Brew on

Sure, for an IPA that is mostly 2 row. But a highly fermentable trippel wort, or a doppelbock full of continental munich malt, etc, a 20 min mash isnt going to be fully converted. Sometimes it isnt after 60 minutes on my setup.

Im sure full volume mashes may work in some styles, but the grist to liquor ratio has an effect on enzymatic activity and the amount minerals you need to add to control mash ph. If doing a protein rest, do those enzymes work as well with a thin mash? How about a feurlic acid rest? I am dubious making a doppelbock, or a grodziskie, or bohemian pilsner, is going to work as well, compared to a traditional mash/sparge.

(Though I can see the advantage of not being able to mess up the sparge compared to the loss of control of mash thickness)

And it may be b.s. but it seems like a thicker liquor to grist ratio brings out more malt flavor in english styles, for the same attenuation. I tend to mash a 1.1 quarts/lb or 2.1 l/kg.

jbaysurfer said:

Owly thinks BIAB is a cause to champion. It's a common theme in his posts. In the Zymatic thread he assumes someone looks down on him for BIAB brewing. He does small batches so a lot of his analysis doesn't consider the merits of certain processes for larger batches.

He's a bright guy with lots of good ideas, but if you're not a small batch biab brewer with an eye for doing brewdays as quickly as possible, he may not exactly represent your POV.

Also, don't bring up extract brewing to him. LOL...

Click to expand...

"First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 99 batches and counting (as of 10/21/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all."

Ouch!


I've obviously got some catching up to do..... at only 35 batches starting Feb 27 2014. I suspect I won't catch up until 2016. I won't even hit 50 this year. Saturday will be 36, and I'm making a shandy shooting for low attenuation to provide the sweetening for the fresh lemon I'll be putting in during "secondary". American Pilsner malt for a base.

Let me point out the obvious fact that when doing small batches (2.5 gallon), time does matter. I wonder how many folks do a batch a week?? At 4.5 hours a brew, that adds up to 234 hours a year just for brewing, not to mention racking, etc... For me small size means that I can cover more ground as far as experimenting with malts and hops. I'm NOT running a brewery making Bud Light.

There's an old saw about not being able to make an omelet without breaking eggs. I don't mind being shown the error of my ways and ideas.


H.W.

Well apparently with more research, liquor to grist ratio doesnt effect fermentability of worts as much with well modified malts. Hrm. I know ive read that its had an effect on beta-amalayze activity before. Maybe its a hold over from old commercial practice and not relevant at our scale?

http://braukaiser.com/documents/Effects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency.pdf

doug293cz said:

Sparging can be shown mathematically to improve efficiency of sugar extraction from mashes http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis.

Whether sparging is right for you depends on whether or not maximizing efficiency is more important than other constraint/considerations than may apply to your situation or equipment set. Some of it comes down to equipment volume constraints, and a lot of it is personal preference or how much you value time vs. $$. There is no universal right or wrong answer. Clear explanations of the pros/cons of different procedures are helpful to others in making decisions. "I'm right, you're an idiot" statements contribute nothing useful to anyone wanting to gain helpful information.

Historically I BIAB and sparge primarily because my previous mash tun/BK was limited in volume. I have a bigger pot now, so may, or may not try no sparge. Either way I will have beer! Do what works for you and makes you happier.
Brew on

Click to expand...

Doug:
Thanks for the link................. this exactly the sort of thing that is useful. I am at a loss as to where you came up with "I'm right, you're an idiot", or anything remotely approaching that in my original post. I will say, as I said before, the ability to use a finer crush makes a significant difference. Math or not, I've achieved efficiencies with BIAB that sometimes exceed 90% though usually are a bit under...... based on Brewer's Friend.
My procedure is to measure gravity at the end of boil with a known volume, then adjust the efficiency in Brewer's Friend until the gravity matches my result.
That does NOT negate the mathematical arguments presented in the article, but rather shows that there is more than one factor in play.

H.W.

RM-MN said:

WAIT! You can't just drop a bombshell like that an leave. Suggesting that sparging is obsolete is like sacrilege. You have to follow up with telling them that the hour long mash is a waste of time because 20 minutes gets full conversion and the same FG.

Click to expand...

LOL I have the same feelings when I rewatch a movie with someone who hasn't seen it yet. BETTER NOT RUIN THE ENDING mother f.........................

Let me point out the obvious fact that when doing small batches (2.5 gallon), time does matter. I wonder how many folks do a batch a week?? At 4.5 hours a brew, that adds up to 234 hours a year just for brewing, not to mention racking, etc... For me small size means that I can cover more ground as far as experimenting with malts and hops. I'm NOT running a brewery making Bud Light.


H.W.[/QUOTE]

I do 1 to 2 batches a week, around 80 batches a year. A decoct most batches. Batch times are around 6 hours. But I brew with friends, its social, and most of brewing is standing around, you can do other things.

Owly055 said:

Let me point out the obvious fact that when doing small batches (2.5 gallon), time does matter. I wonder how many folks do a batch a week?? At 4.5 hours a brew, that adds up to 234 hours a year just for brewing, not to mention racking, etc...

Click to expand...

Here's another fact. I brew 10 gallons every other week. At 6 hours per brew I spend 156 hours per year for 260 gallon, compared to your 234 hours per year for 130 gallon. Meaningless? Probably, but you brought it up.

I don't really know what your point is with all of this, other than to rehash issues that have already been beaten to death. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Owly055 said:

"First Brew was thanksgiving 2011, I'm at 99 batches and counting (as of 10/21/2014), and ran out of room in my signature to list them all."

Ouch!


I've obviously got some catching up to do..... at only 35 batches starting Feb 27 2014. I suspect I won't catch up until 2016. I won't even hit 50 this year. Saturday will be 36, and I'm making a shandy shooting for low attenuation to provide the sweetening for the fresh lemon I'll be putting in during "secondary". American Pilsner malt for a base.

Let me point out the obvious fact that when doing small batches (2.5 gallon), time does matter. I wonder how many folks do a batch a week?? At 4.5 hours a brew, that adds up to 234 hours a year just for brewing, not to mention racking, etc... For me small size means that I can cover more ground as far as experimenting with malts and hops. I'm NOT running a brewery making Bud Light.

There's an old saw about not being able to make an omelet without breaking eggs. I don't mind being shown the error of my ways and ideas.


H.W.

Click to expand...

You can generate discussion by posting an interesting topic. There's no need to be controversial as it will almost certainly detract from a balanced, useful discussion. Although I guess your Click-Bait did the trick since I'm here.

You can make an omelet without standing up on your chair afterwards and yelling at everyone else that did it differently. People like that generally don't mind being shown the error of their ways, because they don't think they're wrong to begin with.

Owly055 said:

Let me point out the obvious fact that when doing small batches (2.5 gallon), time does matter. I wonder how many folks do a batch a week?? At 4.5 hours a brew, that adds up to 234 hours a year just for brewing,

H.W.

Click to expand...

I brew two 11.5 gallon batches every other week with a six hour brew day start to finish

I brew on Tuesdays and Thursdays because I work from home those days

so for me it is like getting paid to brew, I do stuff around my place while mashing etc.

all the best

S_M

Owly055 said:

Doug:
Thanks for the link................. this exactly the sort of thing that is useful. I am at a loss as to where you came up with "I'm right, you're an idiot", or anything remotely approaching that in my original post. I will say, as I said before, the ability to use a finer crush makes a significant difference. Math or not, I've achieved efficiencies with BIAB that sometimes exceed 90% though usually are a bit under...... based on Brewer's Friend.
My procedure is to measure gravity at the end of boil with a known volume, then adjust the efficiency in Brewer's Friend until the gravity matches my result.
That does NOT negate the mathematical arguments presented in the article, but rather shows that there is more than one factor in play.

H.W.

Click to expand...

Owly, I didn't quote your post, so why would you think the "I'm right, you're an idiot" was directed at you? It wasn't. It was a meta comment on what can happen in discussions started by a controversial assertion. I much prefer discussions based on supporting data or references, as opposed to those that devolve into ad hominem shouting matches. At least on the informational forums. Entertainment forums (eg "Drunken Ramblings ...") are a different matter.

90% mash efficiency with no sparge is a phenomenal achievement. Gives me more incentive to experiment with no sparge, now that I can.

Brew on

doug293cz said:

Owly, I didn't quote your post, so why would you think the "I'm right, you're an idiot" was directed at you? It wasn't. It was a meta comment on what can happen in discussions started by a controversial assertion. I much prefer discussions based on supporting data or references, as opposed to those that devolve into ad hominem shouting matches. At least on the informational forums. Entertainment forums (eg "Drunken Ramblings ...") are a different matter.

90% mash efficiency with no sparge is a phenomenal achievement. Gives me more incentive to experiment with no sparge, now that I can.

Brew on

Click to expand...

Doug:

I tossed out a question to start this thread.......... a controversial question without a doubt, and I thought expressed my thoughts and invited comment.

I don't hit 90% every brew by any means, but I to hit it sometimes. It's always 85 or better. Keep in mind that I'm working with a much finer crush than a lot of people. This leaves me with a bit more trub in the end, so "grain to glass" efficiency is NOT 90%. I still get the same number of bottles per brew, but I don't get that half glass left over when racking, which I end up drinking at the time. It's a bit less than that.

I enjoy seeing people experiment and come back with their results. RM-MN and I both are inclined to do extremely short mashes as well, and a few others are experimenting in that direction. I personally have no intention of doing 5,10, or 20 gallon brews for the foreseeable future, I like the flexibility of small batches. I get to play a lot, and currently have 5 different brews to choose from.

H.W.

How much does a bag cost for biab? Looking at a few sites I googled (Like this one: http://www.brewinabag.com/) they seem to be charging $30-$35 for a bag. You gotta be able to find these cheaper right? It's just a mesh bag! Any way, IF that is what the bags cost, it's only $10 cheaper than the 15 gallon cooler mlt I just built for a buddy.

"There is no doubt that I could get more sugars out of the grain by sparging it..... we all could. Sparge with more water, and you have to boil longer. I wonder which is cheaper.... grain or propane? I pay $25 for a 50 pound bag of 2 row. It's a "no brainer" on my end."

I'm not sure I follow you there. (Declaimer: newby here) I run all my calculations ahead of time to make the sum of my runnings equal my boil volume (= batch size+boil off). Just boiling the standard 60 to 90 minutes or what ever the recipe calls for.

thekraken said:

How much does a bag cost for biab? Looking at a few sites I googled (Like this one: http://www.brewinabag.com/) they seem to be charging $30-$35 for a bag. You gotta be able to find these cheaper right? It's just a mesh bag! Any way, IF that is what the bags cost, it's only $10 cheaper than the 15 gallon cooler mlt I just built for a buddy.

"There is no doubt that I could get more sugars out of the grain by sparging it..... we all could. Sparge with more water, and you have to boil longer. I wonder which is cheaper.... grain or propane? I pay $25 for a 50 pound bag of 2 row. It's a "no brainer" on my end."

I'm not sure I follow you there. (Declaimer: newby here) I run all my calculations ahead of time to make the sum of my runnings equal my boil volume (= batch size+boil off). Just boiling the standard 60 to 90 minutes or what ever the recipe calls for.

Click to expand...

I've been using a 5 gallon paint strainer bag from Home Depot. It works well for me as it fits my 5 gallon pot if I want to make a 2 1/2 gallon batch or my 7 1/2 gallon turkey fryer if I want a 5 gallon batch. I got my 2 (because they come two in a package) for $3.76 plus tax. Some of the more expensive ones are custom made to fit a different size pot, some have a finer mesh. Mine work fine for me.

RmikeVT said:

Pretty solid. What was your mash temp?

Click to expand...

151F, on the nose. Mashed in my oven

thekraken said:

How much does a bag cost for biab? Looking at a few sites I googled (Like this one: http://www.brewinabag.com/) they seem to be charging $30-$35 for a bag. You gotta be able to find these cheaper right? It's just a mesh bag! Any way, IF that is what the bags cost, it's only $10 cheaper than the 15 gallon cooler mlt I just built for a buddy.

Click to expand...

Would you list the bill of materials with cost and source for us? I haven't seen any 15 gal coolers for $45, much less with plumbing. If you have a reliable source, I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested. If you're buying used, then yes, diligent scrounging is usually much cheaper than buying new. But, it's unfair to compare new, custom made/fit to used. You also don't have to buy a custom made bag. Many people use very inexpensive paint strainer bags from HD, Lowes, etc. But, I really like my bag from Wilser.

Brew on

Lol....you guys are out of hand. The best is having the ability to do both. I haven't biab'd yet but I'm glad I know I can and really the idea of not watching gravity at the end of sparge is starting to be more appealing every brew.

Brewing is a pain in the a$$.