First time brewing please give advice!

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dravack

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Hey guys. So this is my first time brewing anything. I have a couple questions if you guys could help.

First off I'm brewing two one gallon batches using 365 whole foods in a glass carboy. I'm using two different yeasts. One is nottingham ale yeast and the other is red star champagne yeast since those two seem the most popular online for starter brews. I added about a 3/4 a cup to a cup of sugar to each one.
That's about all the important info I can think to add. So on to the questions

1. Is this enough sugar or should I add more?
2. Any idea on how long I can expect this to brew before it's ready to bottle? Was just going to wait for the bubbling to end then bottle it with one sugar cube in each bottle for carbonation purposes.
3. Is it possible to screw this up? I mean it seems so simple but I keep doubting myself. I guess what I'm trying to ask is like when cooking pork they say get it to an internal temp of whatever aka make sure theres no pink in it. I'm use to hearing things like that but from this it seems like do whatever you want and just drink it and things will be fine?
4. Anyone near central mississippi know of any good orchards or any places to get fresh produce? I can't even find a farmers market here. =/ (mainly looking for fresh fruit like apples)
5. Anything else you guys think I should know?

6. Not cider related but if this goes well I want to do a mead next I think so any advice there is appreciated too. Thanks!
 
Do some more searches. Some thoughts are: Starting cider has no preservatives right? How will you secondary? You've got to make the yeast go dormant before bottling otherwise it will eat your carb sugar. Adding sugar initially increases alcohol but at the expense of taste or so I've heard.
 
Roadie said:
Do some more searches. Some thoughts are: Starting cider has no preservatives right? How will you secondary? You've got to make the yeast go dormant before bottling otherwise it will eat your carb sugar. Adding sugar initially increases alcohol but at the expense of taste or so I've heard.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice.

From everything I read the whole foods cider is fine since it has nothing in it really. The ingredients list is organic pasteurized unfilled apple juice and thats it. Yes some people say fresh non pasteurized is better but this is the best I could do for now.

As for secondary I was just going to fill the 12 oz bottles and add the one sugar cube or equivalent amount of other sugar source in each bottle. Don't you want the yeast to eat that sugar so it produces co2 which causes the carbonation?

I've seen some guys online put the bottles in the freezer first but others haven't so do I really need to make it dormant first?
Also seen a few boil it to kill the yeast. I can do that but didn't think it was necessary?

Yeah from what I gathered the sugar will increase the alcohol content as for the expense of taste I haven't heard that. I'll google around and see if I can find anything about that.
 
You are correct about adding sugar at bottling - it will be eaten by the yeast and will produce the carbonation you want. (Maybe the other response was thinking you were trying to backsweeten with that sugar - add back some sweetness after the yeast processed the original sugars in the juice and initial sugar addition?)

The Whole Foods 365 juice is great for cider - that's what I used initially to collect the jugs. Now I just buy the Kirkland brand gallons from Costco, as they're cheaper...

As mentioned, adding sugar initially will dry up the ABV and dry out the cider somewhat, but whether it is to the detriment of taste is subjective... Just don't add too much (look around at recipes on here to get an idea of normal sugar additions).

Also, if you get some yeast nutrients (and research "staggered nutrient addition" on here, especially the sticky above, iirc), your yeast will be much happier and perform better for you. Juice doesn't have the same natural occurring nutrients that beer wort does, so you should get some from your LHBS. Also, look up what the optimal fermentation temp of each yeast is, and try to stay within that range if possible. My first couple batches were fermented too warm, and you could definitely tell in the taste. Most wine yeast tend to have a larger range of temps than the beer yeasts, in my experience...

As far as time, I'd leave it in primary at least one month, then transfer to a new jug, off the yeast cake that settles out, and let it sit in secondary for another month or two. Flavors will mellow and taste better after a few months. That being said, if you are really in a hurry, you can bottle after a few weeks fermentation (I'd go three minimum still)... Just make sure it's done fermenting so you don't get bottle bombs. Airlock activity isn't totally reliable - I'd get a hydrometer if you don't already have one... Test a few times after a few weeks, and once you get the same reading after a couple days in a row, you'll know it's done.
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Looks what you are doing will result in a hard cider - cloudy if you bottle from the primary - but if you want to make a better cider you might want to check out what books have been published on cider making or more generally wine or mead making. And you might want to buy or borrow an hydrometer so that you have some idea what your starting gravity is and whether the yeast has transformed all the available sugar to CO2 and alcohol.
 
bernardsmith said:
Looks what you are doing will result in a hard cider - cloudy if you bottle from the primary - but if you want to make a better cider you might want to check out what books have been published on cider making or more generally wine or mead making. And you might want to buy or borrow an hydrometer so that you have some idea what your starting gravity is and whether the yeast has transformed all the available sugar to CO2 and alcohol.
Click to expand...


From what I've heard I could add gelatin or other various chemical things to help with clarity. Was thinking about trying the gelatin since it's cheap and easy to get. Thoughts on this?

As for the hydrometer I plan on buying one after this batch if all goes well. I don't know anywhere I can borrow one. I just moved to Jackson and have met no one. Thus the new solo hobby lol. I found a book that has period medieval mead making I plan on buying. Haven't seen anything for cider yet but haven't looked to hard.


FatsSchindee said:
You are correct about adding sugar at bottling - it will be eaten by the yeast and will produce the carbonation you want. (Maybe the other response was thinking you were trying to backsweeten with that sugar - add back some sweetness after the yeast processed the original sugars in the juice and initial sugar addition?)

The Whole Foods 365 juice is great for cider - that's what I used initially to collect the jugs. Now I just buy the Kirkland brand gallons from Costco, as they're cheaper...

As mentioned, adding sugar initially will dry up the ABV and dry out the cider somewhat, but whether it is to the detriment of taste is subjective... Just don't add too much (look around at recipes on here to get an idea of normal sugar additions).

Also, if you get some yeast nutrients (and research "staggered nutrient addition" on here, especially the sticky above, iirc), your yeast will be much happier and perform better for you. Juice doesn't have the same natural occurring nutrients that beer wort does, so you should get some from your LHBS. Also, look up what the optimal fermentation temp of each yeast is, and try to stay within that range if possible. My first couple batches were fermented too warm, and you could definitely tell in the taste. Most wine yeast tend to have a larger range of temps than the beer yeasts, in my experience...

As far as time, I'd leave it in primary at least one month, then transfer to a new jug, off the yeast cake that settles out, and let it sit in secondary for another month or two. Flavors will mellow and taste better after a few months. That being said, if you are really in a hurry, you can bottle after a few weeks fermentation (I'd go three minimum still)... Just make sure it's done fermenting so you don't get bottle bombs. Airlock activity isn't totally reliable - I'd get a hydrometer if you don't already have one... Test a few times after a few weeks, and once you get the same reading after a couple days in a row, you'll know it's done.
Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
Click to expand...

I thought about using a yeast nutrient but decided against it since i wanted to keep it simple and easy for the first time.

As for the secondary I don't have a secondary jug to use for both. The two gallon glass jars is all I have. I guess I could go buy two more things of apple juice and drink them fast but that's really more than I wanted to do. Any suggestions?

I guess since you guys both suggest getting a hydrometer I should just bite the bullet and get one... Is the triple scale one the one i want? I saw a guy on youtube that had two kinds. One didn't have the formula on it and he went and got a second one that had the potential alcohol content conversion on the hydrometer itself instead of a piece of paper. Any ideas which one he had?
 
Thought of another question. Will I notice a significant taste difference if I let it clear by the seconding racking?

Would love to have this ready by halloween which I don't think is possible if I rack it for any length of secondary time. Might be able to do a week in secondary. Based on my estimates if I do want it by halloween. Though could just wait and drink it on thanksgiving i guess
 
Just try it the way you are planning the first time, and take notes on your process and then the flavor. Save some bottles to age a while and then compare flavor. Then try again with yeast nutrient, secondary, hydrometer readings, etc., and note the differences. Either way you'll make cider, and you'll probably learn something along the way (whether it's that our recommendation might make it slightly or noticeably better, or that you like the quick and dirty method better). That's part of the fun of this hobby - experimenting! Either way - good luck, have fun, and keep learning. I've picked up lots of valuable tips on this forum...


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For short term aging you might use a plastic gallon milk container (or if you have access to good dairies a glass gallon milk container). Or you could use the plastic as your primary and then rack to the glass for the secondary. Glass gallon carboys are not commonly used commercially but they are available. Is it Rossi wine that is sold in gallon bottles?
 
Update so a week has almost past and the nottinghams ale yeast seems to have slowed significantly not just in the air lock but in the glass carboy too and the red star champagne yeast is still going strong. is this normal? or should I add more sugar or something?

I was going to leave them for 2 weeks in primary but should I go ahead and put nottinghams into secondary (assuming I can find a suitable vessel and that the bubbling is nil on sunday)

EDIT: second query. Ive heard different thoughts on this but can I also brew basically any other juice using this same method and just play with it when I have extra yeast/carboys/etc..? like crabapple cider or mango juice/wine/whatever etc..

Some of the articles I read said that you should mix it with apple juice but can I use straight mango? or will it taste weird?

Also I don't know about the rossi wine never had any. My preferred store bought wine is Educated Guess. I love the label and it tastes decent.
 
I'm not trying to be an a$$, but if this batch goes bad in any way, then you won't buy a hydrometer, right? Let me put it this way, if you don't buy a hydrometer for this batch, you could possibly make bottle bombs and hurt yourself, and, waste all the money you spent on that top shelf cider. Go to Brewhaha in Jackson, they are open Saturdays. Peace of mind is worth more than $8.00, right?
 
Already had plans on getting one and a five gallon brewing bucket. Yes their open today but don't have time to get one today. Going by on Tuesday since he's closed on Sunday's and Mondays. I'm not really worried about bottle bombs. Since everyone says put into secondary which means it will have airlock in it to let off gas. Just worried that fermentation is slowing down wayyy to fast on the nottinghams
 
Active/visible fermentation does usually slow down within a week or less, usually. But the yeast will still be working on the cider, fermenting whatever sugar is left, and also cleaning up some of their own byproducts (esters, phenols, higher alcohols, etc). Leave it in the primary for at least 3-4 weeks before transferring it to secondary - you'll get a cleaner (flavor and clarity) cider in the end...


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Roadie said:
You've got to make the yeast go dormant before bottling otherwise it will eat your carb sugar.
Click to expand...


Say what??????

Carbonation is produced by yeast eating the priming sugar and producing C02. That's exactly how it works.
 
FatsSchindee said:
Active/visible fermentation does usually slow down within a week or less, usually. But the yeast will still be working on the cider, fermenting whatever sugar is left, and also cleaning up some of their own byproducts (esters, phenols, higher alcohols, etc). Leave it in the primary for at least 3-4 weeks before transferring it to secondary - you'll get a cleaner (flavor and clarity) cider in the end...


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
Click to expand...


This is what I was looking for. Thanks! Will follow suggestion!
 
podz said:
Say what??????

Carbonation is produced by yeast eating the priming sugar and producing C02. That's exactly how it works.
Click to expand...


I saw a few people who put the bottles in the fridge first. I suspect its meant to slow the yeast since it won't kill them. But, honestly it seems like a wasted step to me and I don't have the time nor patience for that lol. I just want to do down and dirty brewing right now. Might make my five gallon bucket/glass carboy (whichever is cheaper less its like a $5 difference then going glass) brew a bit more fancy and clear it and stuff.

Also just bought a juicer so I might even add some fresh juice to it. Got any suggestions on what to use to clear it.
 
Don't freak. Good job paying attention. Get ready to brew better the next time!
 
dravack said:
I saw a few people who put the bottles in the fridge first. I suspect its meant to slow the yeast since it won't kill them. But, honestly it seems like a wasted step to me and I don't have the time nor patience for that lol. I just want to do down and dirty brewing right now. Might make my five gallon bucket/glass carboy (whichever is cheaper less its like a $5 difference then going glass) brew a bit more fancy and clear it and stuff.

Also just bought a juicer so I might even add some fresh juice to it. Got any suggestions on what to use to clear it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you can force clear your cider by cooling it - this is called cold crashing.

Or you can just wait until fermentation is finished and then it will clear on it's own.

If you cold crash at a relatively high gravity, say 1.020, in order to preserve sweetness for taste and carbonating then you must not use glass for bottling because they will probably end up exploding. PET bottles aren't going to explode on you unless you create an extraordinary amount of pressure, so that's the way to go.

I often just cold crash at 1.010 into PET bottles and drink them straight out of the fridge, i.e. they never get warmed up again thus no carbonation. But they do have a little bit of sweetness.
 
So it's bottled with one sugar cube each. Not bad flavor not too dry at all. How long will it need before its carbonated. Used 16oz bottles. I'm think from what I read wait about a week but if I'm impatient I saw a few people claiming 48 hours. Thoughts?
 
dravack said:
So it's bottled with one sugar cube each. Not bad flavor not too dry at all. How long will it need before its carbonated. Used 16oz bottles. I'm think from what I read wait about a week but if I'm impatient I saw a few people claiming 48 hours. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Check one in 2-3 days. If it's not enough carb check again in a day. When it's ready fridge them babies and after 3 days in the fridge drink em up. If they're plastic bottles just wait till they're hard then fridge them. Open slowly though in case of geysers.
 
Ended up going plastic pet bottles since it's my first run. Will have been a week come this weekend. The bottles are kinda firm but not overly so. I worry I didn't add enough sugar. But, we'll find out the results of at least one bottle tomorrow. I'll post with results.
 
Dont use sugar cubes for carbonation, you mayu also risk contamination There are tons of online calculators to dial in exactly how much carbonation you want
http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
This one lets you put in your total volume, your chosen sugar (even maple syrup and honey) and the carbonation level you desire. You'd have to find out where ciders lie though since its only got references for beer
 
I saw a guy using sugar cubes he seemed to do fine? I'll probably use carbonation tablets next time
 

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