Kayak

I've been a canoe guy for years. My canoe has about had it, and I'm looking for something smaller, lighter and more manageable. A kayak is looking good.

I've read about sit on vs sit in. Seems the big drawback to sit in is how hard they are to right and empty if they tip over. I've been over in a canoe a few times. Most were due to shenanigans I know how to right and empty them in the water. There's a lot out there saying it's "impossible" to do that in a sit in kayak. True? And I mean, in water too deep to stand in.

I want a kayak I can fish from, comfortably. And a back rest. Those trump speed. I ain't racing.

Adjustable foot braces vs moulded in? Seems moulded in is better. Less parts and less parts bolted or riveted on.

Brands?

Other considerations?

If you want to comfortably fish you need a sit on top model. I have several very nice touring sit inside kayaks and The thought of leisurely fishing from them makes me cringe. Its doable but it is not their primary function in my experience.

Like Canoes you can have buoyancy blocks in them. My Rush doesn't have them but my Cayuga does in a way. Sealed dry compartments. I can add foam blocks to the Rush though.

Same rules apply to getting in it after you capsize it. Hand pump or collapsible bailing buckets work well.

Like most people up north, we have the "sit in" kind, so that you an use a spray skirt for cold water and cold days. In Texas, I see mostly the 'sit on top' kind being used for recreation as well as fishing.

We fish a lot with ours- they are 12 multi-purpose kayaks, not the real long seagoing ones.

They are not tippy at all, certainly less than a canoe, and if you do manage to tip over, they are ok to get back in but not as easy as a sit on top model.

I have a good seat in mine, so it's fairly comfortable. I've seen some awesomely rigged kayaks for sale in the shops around Rockport. Those are all sit-on-top models, but have rod holders and stuff incorporated in them.

It really depends on where you're fishing and what you'll be doing. If speed is important, you'll want a narrower longer boat. If stability is more important, you'll want a shorter wider boat.

We tried out several kayaks before deciding, as some just handle better than others so I'd recommend doing that if you possibly can.

I have owned several yaks throughout the years, and only use SOT kayaks for leisure and mostly for fishing. You have endless possibilities with different models/options, just like buying a new car. As Yooper mentions above, much depends on what you plan on doing with it.

I fish mainly lakes in NTX, but do get down to the Gulf Coast as well and need something that can handle big water. I would definitely recommend going to a kayak demo often held by a boat dealer, which will allow you to try different models/configurations. This will give you the option to try one out and determine what fits you best.

In Texas, Austin Canoe and Kayak holds demos days in the spring in both Austin and Houston. Around Dallas, Mariner Sails will do the same. Good Luck..IMO you cannot go wrong getting a kayak, just take your time and you will find exactly what you need.

We have the sit in kind, and they can be used for fishing as we do that all the time, but the sit on kind are definitely better. For one, the shape of the top doesn't lend itself very well to sitting things down on ours. You are constantly sitting things down when fishing. Bait boxes, snips, the lure you are changing to, etc. ect. The rounded top of our sit in kayaks don't work great for this. We pretty much have to use our laps for everything.

Drinking American beer is like making love in a canoe...........

Sorry, that's all I have.

When I purchased mine from Dicks a few years back I sat in the ones I was interested in. I simply asked the clerk to unlock them and allow me to sit in them. I found the more expensive one had a sharp edge that pressed into my knee. The mid range was the best fit for my size and the position I liked my legs.

Moral is TRY THEM OUT. Asked the clerk to get a few of them down and grab an oar. make a roaring motion. Wear a life vest wile doing so if you are going to wear one wile on your trips. I suggest an auto/manual inflate model



This is the one I decided on... I think its discontinued now. Perception 11

Thanks.

I'll be in creeks, small rivers and lakes. NTX territory. Speaking of, I canoed a little in the west fork of the Trinity, there by Twin Wells golf course. Didn't find any bodies. The current was fierce going up river just before Loop 12.

The sis vs sot debate is looking like a large matter of preference, aside from a good sis and skirt keeping you drier. One person says fishing in a sis sucks. The next loves it. I'm leaning to sot. I think. Maybe. I know my least favorite outdoor combo is cold and wet, so I'm not likely to be paddling across Grapevine in February.

More stable than a canoe? I already see kayaks come in a myriad of shapes. Long slivers to toad shaped looking things. Shirley, that affects stability. But more stable than a canoe?

And what's the deal on standing in these things? I could stand in a canoe, without pontoons, even. We would sometimes paddle and push pole standing.

I have flipped a canoe before. Unless you are doing rapids I have never herd of anyone flipping a kayak. Maybe falling off of the sit on top models.
Its also the paddling that is SO much easier in a kayak. An amazing amount of efficiency.

Check out Paddling.net, go to local demos(usually in Spring); they will allow you a free 'hands-on'., and get the Dec(in Nov) issue of Canoe & Kayak mag: has new equip in all classes. c.o.: Craigslist, meet the owner and try the boat-in a public place just to be safe. ALWAYS try the boat in person. Take notes and compare other boats to ones you've tried.
Got an EMS near you? Look for vendors on web, go there, learn.

i had 2 kayaks for my wife and i. both were wilderness systems tsunami 125 i believe. sold them when we moved to the country.

They were awesome. every durable, bulkheads from and back for tons of space for tents and gear, bungee cords to hold map bags and smaller items. i fished out of mine a ton and always had a great time. you can sneak in really close to those honey holes.

sit in are nice if your going to do serious paddling, but if you are more likely to go out for 30min or play around then the sit on top are nice. sit on are also nice if your older or have bad knees or hips.

Paddling.net is great for all things paddling. They have very informative write-ups on places to paddle. I know they use to review them before publishing.

I'm older than I used to be, but what's the advantage of a sot on knees and hips? More room to flex your legs?

Zuljin said:

Thanks.

I'll be in creeks, small rivers and lakes. NTX territory. Speaking of, I canoed a little in the west fork of the Trinity, there by Twin Wells golf course. Didn't find any bodies. The current was fierce going up river just before Loop 12.

The sis vs sot debate is looking like a large matter of preference, aside from a good sis and skirt keeping you drier. One person says fishing in a sis sucks. The next loves it. I'm leaning to sot. I think. Maybe. I know my least favorite outdoor combo is cold and wet, so I'm not likely to be paddling across Grapevine in February.

More stable than a canoe? I already see kayaks come in a myriad of shapes. Long slivers to toad shaped looking things. Shirley, that affects stability. But more stable than a canoe?

And what's the deal on standing in these things? I could stand in a canoe, without pontoons, even. We would sometimes paddle and push pole standing.

Click to expand...

They are far more stable than a canoe- because your center of gravity is so low. You are sitting right on the water, especially in a sit-in canoe. However, you can not stand up in one. No way. That changes the whole center of gravity, and you will flip over.

One thing to consider is that we fish out of our kayaks in Jan/Feb/March all the time in and around the Gulf. We go in saltwater bays both small and large, like the Laguna Madre, as well as a few rivers.

The sit in offers quite a bit of protection from waves and water from your paddle, so even without a spray skirt (I don't have one), you stay much drier in it than you do on a sit on top. Some days in February, I went out in my kayak, but my friend had a sit on top, and he got soaked and cold and went home in about 20 minutes due to the waves (and the Gulf temp was like 56 degrees!).

I have a pretty big cockpit, so I have room from my fishing bag, my drink, my net, etc right in there in front of me, with my feet on the pegs. I scoot things down in front that I don't readily need but want to be able to grab- like a little beer cooler. The bigger stuff will either go in the drywells or on the rigging behind me. My life jacket sits behind my seat, as I don't usually wear it in calm water.

Here's a photo of Bob catching a redfish, as I just happened to be taking a photo right then. You can see how low he sits in the water, and so he is balanced well for getting that fish off. The other photos are different days, but you can see how low to the water you are in these.

Zuljin said:

I've been a canoe guy for years. My canoe has about had it, and I'm looking for something smaller, lighter and more manageable. A kayak is looking good.

I've read about sit on vs sit in. Seems the big drawback to sit in is how hard they are to right and empty if they tip over. I've been over in a canoe a few times. Most were due to shenanigans I know how to right and empty them in the water. There's a lot out there saying it's "impossible" to do that in a sit in kayak. True? And I mean, in water too deep to stand in.

I want a kayak I can fish from, comfortably. And a back rest. Those trump speed. I ain't racing.

Adjustable foot braces vs moulded in? Seems moulded in is better. Less parts and less parts bolted or riveted on.

Brands?

Other considerations?

Click to expand...

Impossible? Pfft. I have two sit insides, and I've practiced reentry lots. It's not hard at all. You just need a pump.

Come up abreast of the kayak, lay across the cockpit, grab both sides, lift your self above and slide in.

Grab the pump which should be under your bungies just in front of the cockpit, start pumping. You can evacuate the water in a matter of only a few minutes. You'll want to hurry, because a filled kayak is less stable than one that is dry.

I've also rolled them, but that requires you wear a skirt (go ahead, I know you want to) which I don't bother with down here in hot FL. I have rolled a kayak without one, but you still end up pumping.

BTW, I've done a lot of canoe camping also, and I've flipped those (full of gear). I'm more comfortable getting back in my kayaks.

I also have a sit on top (Wilderness Tarpon 16), but I never use that. It's for my wife when we go out. These do make great fishing kayaks though.

If you want to look at a sit inside, a great kayak for a beginner is Necky's Manitou 14. It has a deployable skeg which helps a lot when you have a tail wind (or from the side), and a very comfortable cushiony seat with a beer holder between your legs. I bought one of these used for $500 and love it. My other kayak is a racer, an Eddyline Night Hawk. It's tippy but very fast. I take that one out more for exercise.

Here's a pic of all 3 of my kayaks on the water. I'm in the blue Eddyline, the red one is the sit on top, then the orange one is the Necky manitou.

Awesome!

Salt water fishing is the stuff. When the reds and specs are hitting, they-are-hitting. Tear em up. Fresh shrimp was our preferred bait.

I haven't been fishing on the Texas coast, yet. The salt marsh and surf of Louisiana though, hell yeah. Catching blacktips in the water you're standing is fun. Especially with a stringer of fish swimming from your pants. Nah. They're pretty docile sharks.

What are y'all paddling, Yooper? What's the access like down there?

Passed, you're in Florida. Ever paddle with alligators? What's that like in a kayak? We've been followed and bumped in a canoe. I'll take the sharks on foot over any lizard six feet or longer. Six and up, they get ballsy.

We were paddling the duck hunt bayou in Saint Charles, came around a bend and a dozen or so large gators launched, not slid, launched themselves into the water. We couldn't see a thing but cloudy swirls in the pea green water. Then, heads. Heads popping up around us. Then the bodies; some as long as the Coleman RamX. I kid you not. They start cruising behind us. Coming along side. Bump. Bump. Bump. Oh s#!+! I was paddling, in what only appeared to be a calm manner, from the stern. My friend was watching from the bow with a 12 gauge. Oh we were so glad to make it to the lake. The water's more fresh than salt right there, but the gators rarely left the green bayou water.

I mean, we were never attacked. My wife and I paddled Lake Fausse and saw some 4 and 5 footers. They just watched us glide by. But the big ones- not to be trifled with.

So, Ascend and Heritage? Coleman, before they became Pelican? Pelican? My canoe is a Coleman and I'm a big Coleman fan. I know some people knock the brand, but we've used lots of their gear and been pleased. Any brands to stay away from?

Ours are Perception brand, 12' kayaks. They are a compromise type kayak- wider like river kayaks, but longer like sea kayaks (but not that long!). Could be the model "prodigy", I can't remember- we've had them since about 2005! Bob said they have a new "Prodigy Angler Model" now, and he sounded interested, but ours are still fine.

The access in the area we go to in the winter is awesome- there are tons of places to put in a kayak. Tell you what- you and your wife come down for a visit next winter and I'll take you on a personalized paddle trip to see whooping cranes and catch a few specs and reds. If you go in the other seasons, I can still tell you all of our secrets. :cross:

I rarely paddle fresh water in Texas, so rarely see gators (plus it's the winter anyway) but I have seen a few. The biggest risk to has has been dolphins, until we got smart.

Up north, Bob puts all his fish on a stringer and keeps on paddling. Well, we didn't even think about an 8' dolphin grabbing the stringer, and then taking US along too. Once we figured out why the dolphins were so "friendly" when we kayaked, we fixed our stupidity.

The dolphins come incredibly close, and even come up alongside the kayak and look you over, but never have then even generated a wave that bothered me. They have definitely startled me, though!

I fish from sit on tops, but i am very tempted to add to the fleet with an old town guide 119 .. basically a solo canoe weighing something like 45 pounds

I've only managed to flip a Kayak once, and it was due to choosing the wrong path... No not Jedi or Sith...


I meant to shoot more tot he right of where I went, but I got caught in the current of some rapids, they pulled me in and there was a spot where a U of a rapids spillway was it churend up the water with alot of air.. the kayak hit it and since it was more air than water the kayak nosed in.. and was slammed with water from the spillway... I could STAND in this spot where the rapids came together, it was so airy it had no real force to push me with. I had to force my Kayak out of that area while standing on the river bed.

There was enough water you could have drowned from breathing it in, and a life preserver would do jack **** because of how airy it was. It was interesting stuff.

I also have had a canoe for over 20 years. Gave up the beast for a much lighter and I feel more stable kayak.

I have kids so went with a tandem kayak so they can come along. Mine is just as stable with just me in the back alone.
My canoe was not as nice with just me alone.

I went with Old Town Twin
Not fancy but family friendly.

So glad I switched.

Zuljin said:

Passed, you're in Florida. Ever paddle with alligators? What's that like in a kayak? We've been followed and bumped in a canoe. I'll take the sharks on foot over any lizard six feet or longer. Six and up, they get ballsy.

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Tons. I've kayaked most bodies of water in the area, and all the freshwater has gators. Hillsborough River in Tampa has big ones, especially the upper parts.

There's a small lake in Safety Harbor called Aligator lake, and for good reason. Big ones on that lake. We have aligators everywhere down here.

I've never had one come near me. They do slide into the water from the shore when you get close, but they are getting in the water to hide, not to attack. Your experience is unusual I'd say.

I've been tipped by a manatee (and nearly so several times).

I was nearly swamped by a huge sturgeon on the Suwanee River. Came completely out of the water right next to my canoe. Scared the crap out of me.

Tons of dophin down here. I've only once had them come close. It was stormy out and two dolphins were screwing with me, racing right at me then ducking under my kayak, then resurfacing. Freaked me out a little. I have a bit of video of them doing that.

I used to kayak at night. I'd get bumped a lot by "things". At dusk I'd see a lot of black tip sharks hunting behind Caladesi Island, and I assume it was them. In the dark, you never know. Kayaking at night will freak you out if you've never done it.

The pic below is me heading up the center of Lake Washington, near Seattle. A friend and I went up the middle of the lake, hooked a right on Sammamish Slough, and pushed upstream for hours until we reached the Redhook Brewery. Got there in the dark. It was a blast. It was very cold.

We went on vacation to Florida and saw a sign for Blackwater canoe rental. That was a nice little spur of the moment paddle.

Sitting here waiting for the moon dragon and I'm torn between Perception and Ascend. Ascend is in the lead.

If you haven't tried a Hobie do yourself a favor and check one out. Fishing on one is great because your hands are free. It is also a pretty good workout as they are like a recumbent bike. I fish saltwater in San Diego and all throughout baja in Hobies. Expensive but worth it IMO.

smcinco said:

If you haven't tried a Hobie do yourself a favor and check one out. Fishing on one is great because your hands are free. It is also a pretty good workout as they are like a recumbent bike. I fish saltwater in San Diego and all throughout baja in Hobies. Expensive but worth it IMO.

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BTW, Hobie Alter just died a couple of weeks ago. He designed many of the Hobie things, most famously the Hobie Cat (I always wanted one of those).

Hobie makes some of those pedal-propelled kayaks. I took off one early morning in the gulf, and one of those sit on top pedal deals were taking off nearby, a fishing guy. That guy stayed right there with me, and I can go pretty fast. I was surprised.

I got a tandem at costco that i fish in the ocean with. It ran about $479 which is cheap considering other brands that i think are way over priced. I set it up for fishing and it works great, can go out for 8 hours and be comfortable. Only drawback is that its kinda heavy being a two person and all, but i can manage it myself. Check em out on costco.com


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passedpawn said:

BTW, Hobie Alter just died a couple of weeks ago. He designed many of the Hobie things, most famously the Hobie Cat (I always wanted one of those).

Hobie makes some of those pedal-propelled kayaks. I took off one early morning in the gulf, and one of those sit on top pedal deals were taking off nearby, a fishing guy. That guy stayed right there with me, and I can go pretty fast. I was surprised.

Click to expand...

Yah I heard that. His was a cool story. Greg Ketterman designed most of their newer products. That guy is a genius. Regarding the guy pedaling next to you, he must have been taking it easy lol. To wit:

http://youtu.be/D0rvFdLdplA?t=20s

Finally, some kayak talk! I was tempted to start my own forum.

I paddle a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 125 here in Oregon and love it on lakes and rivers. When I'm back home for work in Texas, I've always kept an old Pelican 116 SOT for fishing and such. I finally sold it recently but got plenty of use out of it all over Texas. Even a few multi-day overnight trips on the Brazos.

I'm more of a fan of my Tsunami these days because I don't fish much up here in Oregon. I'll be graduating to a longer touring boat soon.

If you're ever near Mountain Sports in Arlington, talk to my buddy Tim. He's full of great info and they have a nice selection at their shop.

You guys got gators and manatees...ever had a sea lion try and board your boat? My son and i were lobster trapping inside the break wall at night and a huge male sea lion surfaced and tried to get up on the front of the kayak, my son stuck his paddle in its mouth and pushed him off. We took off after that, scared the crap out of us.


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passedpawn said:

BTW, Hobie Alter just died a couple of weeks ago. He designed many of the Hobie things, most famously the Hobie Cat (I always wanted one of those).

Hobie makes some of those pedal-propelled kayaks. I took off one early morning in the gulf, and one of those sit on top pedal deals were taking off nearby, a fishing guy. That guy stayed right there with me, and I can go pretty fast. I was surprised.

Click to expand...

Those pedal kayaks are awesome! I've always wanted one, but with salt water and the hassle of taking the pedals in and out when you stop is what stopped me from getting one. We go over a ton of oyster reefs, and the pedals stick way below the kayak, so it's not designed for rocks (at home!) and shallow water over oyster reefs.

I saw the coolest Hobie ever in a store on the coast in Texas. It was a fishing pedal Hobie kayak, with a sail. It had rod holders, perfect rigging, lots of room, and was pretty light all things considered.

We get big winds on the Texas Gulf coast- the wind is always blowing. I thought it would be beyond awesome to sail and/or pedal and save my poor arms. I have little upper body strength and endurance compared to my legs, and would think that would be awesome.

We really just keep ours on shore at our house and turn them upside down. We haul them in and out of the water just about everyday in Texas, and most days in the summer at home so I needed something light and easy. Those pedals require some messing around with, and can't be put in in shallow water.

Native kayaks!!!

They make canoe crossovers with peddle systems or sight on tops they are built for the lake river kayaker that likes to fish/ go on overnights and camp

I have a 14.5 ft ultimate propel angler with a full set of skirts, these have been discontinued I think but they still make the 14.5 ft ultimate

Check them out for sure



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You can add a pacific action sail to any canoe or kayak, I used them on sea kayaks on a fishing trip in northern Australia through paddle trek guides super awesome we were doing 7kts without paddling at all


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w0732400 said:

You can add a pacific action sail to any canoe or kayak, I used them on sea kayaks on a fishing trip in northern Australia through paddle trek guides super awesome we were doing 7kts without paddling at all

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Those sails are very cool. All my boats are rudderless though, and I think a rudder is important when you are being pushed by the wind. Steering a kayak is simple without a rudder, so I've found them useless in my kayaking. Skegs, on the other hand, are invaluable when it's windy.

Paddling.net is a great site with loads of information. If you click Go Paddling, then Trip Reports, you get a lot of local kayaking advice.

Another option is an inflatable pontoon boat. On flat water I will use a trolling motor and battery, you don't need one for moving water. You are up out of the water and it's very comfortable. The 'toon is my favorite fishing platform. I have a bucks bags bronco.

Okay. Look at this hull. It's a Lifetime Tamarack. They make one setup for fishing with the same hull. And I realize Lifetime isn't in the business of solely making kayaks. They also make tables, chairs and other polypro items. I'm okay with that. Hopefully, it means they know how to make things out of plastic.

I figure this hull is flat(ish) and wide. Good initial stability. My main concern though is secondary (once inside it) stability. My canoes have all had flat wide bottoms. I found the secondary stability in them to be just fine, even in some chop and other rough water. This hull has more chine to it than a canoe. That seems to be the way kayaks are. It's got a pointed bow with some rocker. The stern has that, I don't know what to call it, fixed rudder? I'm thinking it's meant to make it track straight. I'm thinking the priority with this deign is overall stability first, tracking second, maneuverability third and speed last. It's 10 feet long and 50 pounds. Much shorter and lighter than my present canoe.

Behind it is a Sun Dolphin. Lots of nice features without being junked up, but the feet braces are too short. I'd have to remove them entirely to comfortably have my legs stretched all the way out. How important are feet braces? I mean, would it suck to not have any at all?

P.S.
I took a year of research, multiple dealership visits, three forums, searching the web like it was my job and asking strangers in parking lots to decide on our last car. This for a kayak is nothing.

Lifetime Products makes a good one for fishing. I have this one. http://www.lifetime.com/gallery/water-sports/kayaks/sport-fisher-kayaks/90121


Drinking = Lucky Red ale, Blonde Hag ale
Secondary = Tomahawk Amber ale
Primary = test batch IPA

And, yes, they do know how to blow-mold HDPE plastic. (They also sell a bracket so that you can run a trolling motor on this kayak.


Drinking = Lucky Red ale, Blonde Hag ale
Secondary = Tomahawk Amber ale
Primary = test batch IPA

Thanks, everyone

Lifetime Tamarack Angler. This very one. Picked up a 220-230 cm adjustable feather paddle, too.

What I already like is that I can load and unload it so much easier than a 95 lb canoe. I tossed it in the bed of my truck, tied it down and took off.