Barley Wine did not carbonate

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knifey_spoony

knifey_spoony

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Hi all,

I brewed a barley wine in December, and bottled in May. Just popped one and there's no carbonation. Not faint carbonation, none. It's like coffee. Taste is excellent though! I'm guessing the high alcohol content killed the yeast during fermentation (this thing was big). I don't want to pour these bottles back into my priming bucket and pour more yeast, so what do you recommend, if anything?

In advance, I did prime properly (not my first batch). Not puffing my chest, but just filtering out the most obvious problems like forgetting to prime. :)

Thanks!
 
The chances are is that you are going to have a relatively still beer. I'm guessing your guess is right: the alcohol killed the yeast. However, you've only been in bottles for a month or two; give it some more time and you may get some carbonation. Otherwise, serve it like a port wine and enjoy.
 
the yeast may just be pooped out after sitting around that long, with the high alcohol like you said. I've poured bottles into a keg before, when they wouldn't carb, but I haven't tried bottle to bucket back to bottle. obviously you run the risk of oxidation, if they are drinkable flat then you may want to consider drinking them as is.
 
sorry, also it can take a while longer for a really big beer to carbonate. maybe some more time will help.
 
Just wondering how you primed ive read to cut back because it can ferment more with time.So my question is how much would be safe/good if i bottled mine @5-6 weeks.1.09 OG. It was kinda a strong ale/scottish old but i didnt intend on that high a gravity.Any suggestions? Never brewed one this big.Its only a 2 gal batch also
Also, Knifey spoony- what was your receipe or what did you make?
 
I had a strong ale that took 6 months to carb. It's not too much of a surprise. The higher the grav the longer it takes,

Lazy Llama came up with a handy dandy chart to determine how long something takes in brewing, whether it's fermentation, carbonation, bottle conditioning....

chart.jpg



In the future you might want to sprinkle fresh yeast along with your priming sugar when you bottle a high grav beer.

If your feeling adventurous you might want to take some dry yeast, open a bottle or two and sprinkle a few granules into the bottle and then re-cap, and check on them in 2-4 weeks. If they pop you might then want to open the rest of them and do the same thing.
 
This happened to me on a Barleywine a couple years ago. I ended up drinking some of it non-carbed, then I started kegging, bought a carb cap & used a 1L bottle to carb them one by one.

Each time I wanted to drink one I'd chill it then pour it in the 1L bottle, pressurize & shake until I got the carb level I wanted.

If you know anyone that kegs you can just get a carb cap & 1L PET bottle and do the same. Barleywine should age nicely by the time you get around to them all.
 
I've had an identical experience. I poured all the bottles back into a bucket, stirred in a half packet of dry yeast, then rebottled. Worked like a charm.

Now, I know the oxygenation flags are getting unfurled right about now, but that beer has won awards in barleywine competitions. I don't like barleywine, and I don't drink it, so I keep entering the same beer every year into the comps, and it always does well.

FYI, I also added some boiled and strained hops when I added the yeast to bring up the IBUs a bit.
 
All:

Thanks for the replies everyone, all great info. Revvy, with all homage to a well-regarded pimp-master like yourself, I honestly believe that additional time will not result in more carbonation. There is absolutely no evidence of any fermentation, despite a full 2+ months of priming. It drinks like a port but, obviously, i was looking for more mouthfeel. Not sure what I'm going to do with this thang!!
 
I understand that the dump into bottling bucket/re-pitch/re-bottle has worked for others with good result, but I would exhaust all other measures first.

Have you tried moving the bottles to a warmer spot....something in the 80F range? It is an obvious starting point, but I would take a couple bottles, give them a good roll to rouse the yeast, and leave them at 80-85F for a few days. That was the exact advice Jamil gave to PushEject (who was having the same problem) on a call in question during the Barley Wine style show.

Joe
 
jfowler1 said:
I understand that the dump into bottling bucket/re-pitch/re-bottle has worked for others with good result, but I would exhaust all other measures first.

Have you tried moving the bottles to a warmer spot....something in the 80F range? It is an obvious starting point, but I would take a couple bottles, give them a good roll to rouse the yeast, and leave them at 80-85F for a few days. That was the exact advice Jamil gave to PushEject (who was having the same problem) on a call in question during the Barley Wine style show.

Joe
Click to expand...

+1,

Plus even with re-yeasting there's no conceivable reason why one would feel the need to "re bottle."

Uncap the bottles, sprinkle some dry yeast in bottle, recap, and give a bit of a shake.

If you're feeling uber anal, rehydrate said yeast in water (or use liquid) get a children's medicine dropper with ML gradients like this,

medicine-dropper-310.jpg


Open beer bottle, suck up slurry into sanitized eyedropper, squirt 1 ml of yeast into bottle, then re-cap.

Why do folks feel they need to dump their beer back into a bucket and re-bottle with sugar or yeast and rebottle, when they simply can add the yeast (or sugar solution) into the already filled bottles.

Why open your beer up to further oxidation? Do folks not think a simple shake of the bottles after would distribute the yeast or sugar?
 
I'm in the same boat right now. My first bottle was completely flat. About two or three weeks later, though, the next one was lightly, but nicely carbed. I've never made a beer as big as this one--it's been years and years of much lighter stuff--so I wasn't aware of how long it took.

I was going to open the bottles and sprinkle a little yeast in each one, but now I think I'm just going to wait it out. These things can benefit from aging anyway. Time will probably work for you, too.
 
Take this with a grain of salt as I'm a pretty new brewer, but I've got a barleywine kit from Norther Brewer that I'm getting ready to do this weekend and in the instructions it says to add a fresh packet of yeast in the bottling bucket. From what I understand, it's because after such a long primary, the yeast either fall out of suspension or become inactive. I've wondered if a whole packet of yeast is needed, but I've got at least six months to research that and decide.

I like Revvy's suggestion of rehydrating some yeast and squirting a bit of the slurry into each bottle since it's already in the bottle.

Here's a link to the instructions if you want to check them out.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BarleyWine.pdf
 
Revvy said:
Plus even with re-yeasting there's no conceivable reason why one would feel the need to "re bottle."

....

Why do folks feel they need to dump their beer back into a bucket and re-bottle with sugar or yeast and rebottle, when they simply can add the yeast (or sugar solution) into the already filled bottles.

Why open your beer up to further oxidation? Do folks not think a simple shake of the bottles after would distribute the yeast or sugar?
Click to expand...

I mentioned the "inconceivable reason" it in my post above. I wanted to increase the IBUs by adding some boiled hops "juice". So, in my case anyway, I was doing more than just re-yeasting. Worked great, too.
 
knifey_spoony said:
. . . . Not sure what I'm going to do with this thang!!
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, please, please, PLEASE!!!! set aside a sixpack and do absolutely nothing with it and try it next year at this time. I GUARANTEE you will wish you saved them all!!!!

Other than that, I refer you back to Revvy's post of Lazy Llama's handy "OG vs. Time" chart, I love that thing. The only chnage that could be made with that chart is that time and patience could be interchangeable:mug:

chart.jpg


TIME AND PATIENCE
 
COLObrewer said:
Whatever you do, please, please, PLEASE!!!! set aside a sixpack and do absolutely nothing with it and try it next year at this time. I GUARANTEE you will wish you saved them all!!!!

Other than that, I refer you back to Revvy's post of Lazy Llama's handy "OG vs. Time" chart, I love that thing. The only chnage that could be made with that chart is that time and patience could be interchangeable:mug:

chart.jpg


TIME AND PATIENCE
Click to expand...

Yep, definitely intend to set the majority of this batch aside for some long term conditioning...at least once it gets carbonated.

I think I'll go ahead and try adding more yeast to each bottle, seems like the most efficient method. Someone recommended moving the batch to a warmer area, however it was conditioning in a non-air-conditioned room from May to the present, so I think it was plenty warm (I was actually afraid it might have been too warm during the hottest days). My only concern now is that maybe the yeast died off before fermentation was complete. I don't want bottle bombs, so I will double check my FG before adding more yeast.
 
jdubb75 said:
Take this with a grain of salt as I'm a pretty new brewer, but I've got a barleywine kit from Norther Brewer that I'm getting ready to do this weekend and in the instructions it says to add a fresh packet of yeast in the bottling bucket. From what I understand, it's because after such a long primary, the yeast either fall out of suspension or become inactive. I've wondered if a whole packet of yeast is needed, but I've got at least six months to research that and decide.

I like Revvy's suggestion of rehydrating some yeast and squirting a bit of the slurry into each bottle since it's already in the bottle.

Here's a link to the instructions if you want to check them out.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BarleyWine.pdf
Click to expand...

I've had my barleywine aging since January. The plan is to bottle in late August. I've read it takes about half a pack of dry yeast, which you can mix right into your priming solution to rehydrate once cooled. This is if you plan on long-term aging it. If you bottle after a few months there should still be enough healthy yeast left. This was the general consensus from a thread I started a few months ago. Regardless, the typical two weeks carb time doesn't apply to high gravity beers. It can take quite awhile to carb properly. I prefer my high gravity beers to be carbed a bit lower anyway.

Mine is based on the Northern Brewer Lord Fatbottom kit, but I changed it up a bit to make it more my own. It came in at about 12% & 123 IBUs...pitched it right in the yeast cake from an IPA I made a few weeks prior. No all I need to do is dry-hop it before I bottle.
 
CTownBrewer said:
I've had my barleywine aging since January. The plan is to bottle in late August. I've read it takes about half a pack of dry yeast, which you can mix right into your priming solution to rehydrate once cooled. This is if you plan on long-term aging it. If you bottle after a few months there should still be enough healthy yeast left. This was the general consensus from a thread I started a few months ago. Regardless, the typical two weeks carb time doesn't apply to high gravity beers. It can take quite awhile to carb properly. I prefer my high gravity beers to be carbed a bit lower anyway.

Mine is based on the Northern Brewer Lord Fatbottom kit, but I changed it up a bit to make it more my own. It came in at about 12% & 123 IBUs...pitched it right in the yeast cake from an IPA I made a few weeks prior. No all I need to do is dry-hop it before I bottle.
Click to expand...

I hadn't even thought about re-hydrating in the priming solution. That sounds like a very good way to get an even mix. I plan on at least a 6 month aging before bottling and after that I hope I can just kind of forget about it for at least a few more months. I'm basically shooting for sharing the wealth with friends next winter. I'm sure I will have to sample at least a few in the name of science, but I plan to have the bulk of it around 14-18 months before I unleash the hounds on it.

I am going to have to try to dig up your thread on the Lord Fatbottom experiment. Between the 12% and the 123 IBU's, I am very interested.

:mug:
 
knifey_spoony said:
Y I don't want bottle bombs, so I will double check my FG before adding more yeast.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have to worry about getting bottle bombs unless you add sugar. A lot of new brewers who have carb issues often thing that adding more sugar is the answer. That's where the risk of bombs come in. If they've added priming sugar to begin with, and it's not carbed, then the problem is not with the sugar, it's with the yeast. The sugar hasn't been consumed by the yeast for whatever reason (in your case they're tuckered out) adding more will just make too much co2 if the yeast ever does eat it.

Adding more yeast is always the safer bet. But yeah in your high grav beer, making sure all the original fermentables in the primary were consumed is probably a good idea, if the yeast tired out before terminal gravity was reached, the yeast would start chewing the other sugar.

But usually adding yeast is the safest.
 
jdubb75 said:
I hadn't even thought about re-hydrating in the priming solution. That sounds like a very good way to get an even mix. I plan on at least a 6 month aging before bottling and after that I hope I can just kind of forget about it for at least a few more months. I'm basically shooting for sharing the wealth with friends next winter. I'm sure I will have to sample at least a few in the name of science, but I plan to have the bulk of it around 14-18 months before I unleash the hounds on it.

I am going to have to try to dig up your thread on the Lord Fatbottom experiment. Between the 12% and the 123 IBU's, I am very interested.

:mug:
Click to expand...

My thread was only on the carbonation issue. If I remember correctly, there were a few other threads for Lord Fatbottom. I figured the longer a beer sits, the more hop characteristics you'll lose, so why not increases the hops & see if any of those characteristics remain after about 8-12 months.

Revvy has a good barleywine thread too with some good info. I think he floated some similar ideas about hopping & aging back when I was researching how to go about mine.
 
Revvy said:
You shouldn't have to worry about getting bottle bombs unless you add sugar. A lot of new brewers who have carb issues often thing that adding more sugar is the answer. That's where the risk of bombs come in. If they've added priming sugar to begin with, and it's not carbed, then the problem is not with the sugar, it's with the yeast. The sugar hasn't been consumed by the yeast for whatever reason (in your case they're tuckered out) adding more will just make too much co2 if the yeast ever does eat it.

Adding more yeast is always the safer bet. But yeah in your high grav beer, making sure all the original fermentables in the primary were consumed is probably a good idea, if the yeast tired out before terminal gravity was reached, the yeast would start chewing the other sugar.

But usually adding yeast is the safest.
Click to expand...

Right. I hadn't planned on adding more priming sugar, but I'm a bit concerned that the yeast might have thrown in the towel before fermentation had ended, leaving me with some fermentables (along with the priming sugar).
 

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