Dry Yeast: Starter or No?

I just had a thought: normally, brewing takes me 6 hours because of my useless kitchen range. But now that I have a turkey fryer burner, I can do it in much less time than that. I haven't used dry yeast in awhile, but I do have some Safeale t-58 in my fridge for emergencies. If I were to go home this afternoon and brew a robust smoked porter, I wouldn't want to pitch any liquid, because I haven't made a starter. But I've come to realize that yeast profile is much less discernible in smoky, malty, dark beers like stouts and porters...so I wouldn't feel bad about using the t-58 on the porter. Anyway, let's say I did this...is it good to make a starter with dry yeast? I never have before, and they've always turned out well. I've also heard that it might do more harm than good...so perhaps I should just rehydrate before pitching?

Thoughts?

do you have to?......no you dont. It will do just finr without one. But, I've made two starters with dry yeast, and they started to take off in less than 3 hours

I've only used dry yeast once and I made a starter. If was up and running within 8 hours (might have been less, but I was sleeping). I don't see how it can hurt - to me, it's a great way to give your yeast a head start and proves that they're viable.

I do not think it is neccessary to make a starter from Safale yeast.

From the website Mr. Malty.com by Jamil Zainasheff.

"Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 12 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter."

Here is the entire page > http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php#C

Well, I had this same question myself on a recent batch. I knew rehydrating dry yeast was a good thing to do. Rehydrating is just that. You place the contents of the packet into good clean water, supposedly 15 min prior to pitching. This is better than dumping the packet into your wort, because the higher specific gravity makes it harder for the yeasts to grab on to a straight water molecule and rehydrate with it. There is more junk like sugar and proteins and hop materials - wort! So, I rehydrated for 15 or so min while I mashed the grains. About 45min into the mash, I collected about 200ml of the runnings and then closed the valve to let the mash finish. I boiled this in an Erlmeyer flask for a few min to kill the bad stuff. Then I chilled the flask in about 10 min. I added the rehydrated yeast as well as a pinch of yeast nutrient. Cup som foil on the top, put it on the stirplate to run while I mashout, sparge, and boil the wort. When it comes time to pitch, the starter is bubbling nicely.
I have only done this on one batch so far, but due to the fact that it started bubbling in about an hour (the end of cleanup), I'll do it again.
It really didnt take any additional time, b/c the work is done while waiting for the mash to convert fully.

Man that was longer than I had anticipated.

Yeah, that Mr. Malty page was what I was talking about when I said that I had read that it might do more harm than good.

I've always rehydrated the yeast, and all I've ever used is Nottinghams or Muntons as I'm still in kits. LHBS sensei told me to try this, boil about 1/2 cup of water, cool to about 75 or so, pitch yeast in. Don't stir, just dump it in. After 15 minutes and your wort temperature is ready to go and they have to be the same temperature, don't want thermal shock, then pitch into wort. Take a clean spoon and stir the whole batch with the pitched yeast. So far, it's all worked out pretty good and have bubbler activitity within 3 to 4 hours.

I've just rehydrated my Nottingham on the last few batches, and always had quick fermentation starts. Bubbles usually starting in just about six hours or so, I'm usually done brewing around 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon and it's bubbling well before bedtime. I've done a starter with dry yeast before, but it was mostly to practice. As long as I'm doing straightforward ales, I'm probably going to stick mostly to Nottingham and Safeale 56 and just play around with malt and hops, let the yeast stay constant.

Every time I've pitched a packet of Safale us56 onto my wort--no starter and no rehydration--it was up and bubbling with 4 hours. When I did the same with Nottingham it didn't work so well. But the Safale has a 100% success rate for this method across ~25 batches. I know it just sounds lazy, but it works fine.

monk

I've had great success with S-56 without utilizing a starter. The biggest point of a starter (proving viability being the secondary concern in my mind) is to increase the cellcount of the yeast to pitching rates. Two packets of dry yeast (around $2.50 from my LHBS) have muchas plenty cellcount which only leaves proving viability to be gained from a starter. So far all my packets have been viable, so I'm rolling with that until proven otherwise.

In terms of starts, I've always gotten fast starts with dry yeast so I feel like I'm safe there, as well.

I used that S-56 on my last batch and I made a starter. The lag time was less than 3 hours.

No starter with my Safale-56 I used on my last couple batches. I never got a few hour start time (usually 18-24) but it always starts and ferments just fine.

I never even rehydrated in normal water before, but I may try that if I use it again. Now that I found some lhbs's I use much more liquid yeasts...

I just recently used a starter for the first time with one packet of Munton's dry yeast...the cheap kind I suppose. The starter worked great for me, I can't really understand the "harm" that could come from making a starter with dry yeast.

The purpose of a starter is to raise the yeast count. Want more yeast? Pitch more yeast. As a side note on rehydrating...make sure you have your water at the correct temperture. Too low or too high isn't good for your yeast either. I just pitch without rehydrating and get fantastic results.

I now have an order in on our club bulk yeast order for a lot (for me) of dry yeast.
I want to try it out for a while to see if any diference will show itself between my recultured frozen yeast vs the dry stuff.