Done with liquid yeast

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apache_brew

apache_brew

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Just randomly felt like sharing my latest aha brewing moment. For my first several years of brewing I’ve strictly built up yeast starters from single packets of liquid yeast over what has usually been the coarse of a weeks time and 2-3 stages to obtain cell counts high enough for 10-15 gallon ~1.050 OG lagers and 1.060 IPA’s. My frequency of brewing has dropped since having a couple kids, and my first venture with dry yeast was the Verdant strain with a hazy IPA. It turned out awesome and most notably I recall feeling less stressed that week because all I did was re-hydrate during my boil and my brew day was laid back. I recently had a series of German lagers to brew for an event (Helles Bock, Festbier, Munich Dunkel) and decided I’d give the CellarScience German dry yeast a chance. Picked up a 500g block and portioned individual pitches in vacuum sealed bags and waited to pitch them after knockout. First two batches I made mini starters with DME on brew day (2-3 hours before pitching) and noticed the krausen in the 5L flask had dropped by the time I pitched the beer. 3rd time around I just sprinkled the pitch directly onto the wort and holy moly, it took off like a rocket and was bubbling within 6 hours (55F pitch temp). This may have been over dramatized because I elected to also not add fermcap to this latest beer, because I woke up to yeast overblown blowoff tube in the morning, it was awesome.

So with that, I’m over building up starters and plenty happy with the results (performance & taste) I’ve been getting from various dry yeasts.

Prost!🍻
 
Dry yeast these days is great. I've been using dry yeasts about 90% of the time for the past 5 or 6 years. I split most batches among multiple fermenters to try different ones to see which ones turn out the best. Use a portion of the pack, fold over the corner and tape it and save the rest in the refrigerator for another day, it keeps for decades probably (unlike liquid yeast that only lasts a few months!). There are so many advantages to dry over liquid it ain't funny.
 
I started moving more toward dry when my LHBS closed 4 years ago, and completely so during the pandemic when I went all-internet buying. I just didn't want to fiddle with cooling packs and such.

The state of the art for dry yeast has jumped a lot in recent years. Of all the styles I like to brew, none of them are significantly better with liquid. The differences are so subtle that I can't justify the extra hassle.

I have a stir plate and a couple Erlenmeyers sitting in a box.
 
Interesting. I'm still a fan of liquid, I feel like I do appreciate and notice all the different flavors. I can say that it may be style dependent, I might notice different liquid yeasts side-by-side in an ESB or Pale Ale (and I think I do). But I do have an Imperial Stout fermenting right now with a few packs of S-05 because I would bet that I could not tell liquid options apart in the presence of so much dark malt.

I suppose you can also tweak your grains a bit accordingly. I.e. you want a little more fruitiness add some caramel 60. Want a dryer fermentation you can change your mash temps.

When my preferred LHBS (Brew & Grow) closed I moved towards Midwest and used them for a few years. With them closing it'll become RiteBrew most likely and mail ordering. I think that any summer or deep winter brews will indeed be with dry yeast from here on out. I may order liquid in spring and fall but that's it.
 
This dry vs liquid scenario is rapidly becoming a matter of if you have a LHBS still alive in your area. I have turned to frozen yeast ranching as the shops have been going out of business and I like wet yeast. But I could see how if you did not have a ranch/library and your LHBS closed, you would be forced into dry. This sort of explains White Lab's new pricing and packaging. Buying liquid yeast might be more of an event rather than a normal occurrence, so they are pricing it higher. For all else - 'let them use dry'...
 
I too just get the 500g brick for my most used yeast. I don't bother vacuuming individual sachets though. I just keep it in the fridge in one of those clamp lid glass jars with a silicone seal and grab 3-4 tsp per batch. It usually lasts about 18 months before I need a new one.

easy.gif
 
FloppyKnockers said:
I too just get the 500g brick for my most used yeast. I don't bother vacuuming individual sachets though. I just keep it in the fridge in one of those clamp lid glass jars with a silicone seal and grab 3-4 tsp per batch. It usually lasts about 18 months before I need a new one.

View attachment 827298
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RiteBrew has great prices for dry yeast and takes an additional $0.40/pack off if you buy 10 or more packages (and they don't even have to be all the same kind.) It's actually not all that much more expensive buying packs from them than it is bricks from most other places. (It comes to about $150-200 for 45 11-g packs, depending on the strain.)

They're also selling Lallemand Koln with a 10/23 expiration date for $1.75/pack right now (or $1.35/pack if you get 10...) This is a wonderful yeast.
 
I'm constantly split batching to compare yeast and I'm always amazed at how inconclusive the results are. For example, on an English Brown (Newcastle clone) I much preferred the dry Nottingham vs the WLP002. On an IPA I preferred the liquid WLP001 to the dry version and US05 also dry. On any German lager, I've always preferred the Omega Bayern (Augustiner) to any dry that I've used (Diamond, 34/70, S23). The only conclusion I've made is that if you don't F around, you don't find out.
 
AlexKay said:
RiteBrew has great prices for dry yeast and takes an additional $0.40/pack off if you buy 10 or more packages (and they don't even have to be all the same kind.) It's actually not all that much more expensive buying packs from them than it is bricks from most other places. (It comes to about $150-200 for 45 11-g packs, depending on the strain.)

They're also selling Lallemand Koln with a 10/23 expiration date for $1.75/pack right now (or $1.35/pack if you get 10...) This is a wonderful yeast.
Click to expand...

I've done that deal. I use US-05 a lot, and considered buying a brick, but the cost/gram isn't much more with that 10 packet deal, so I do that.
 
MaxStout said:
I started moving more toward dry when my LHBS closed 4 years ago, and completely so during the pandemic when I went all-internet buying. I just didn't want to fiddle with cooling packs and such.

The state of the art for dry yeast has jumped a lot in recent years. Of all the styles I like to brew, none of them are significantly better with liquid. The differences are so subtle that I can't justify the extra hassle.

I have a stir plate and a couple Erlenmeyers sitting in a box.
Click to expand...
Very similar to me. I moved during the pandemic and no longer have a close LHBS so that helped the transition as well. My taste preferences are simple. Pale/IPA, German lager, Mexican Lager, Hazy IPA make up most of what I’m going to brew.
 
besides the few specialty only available in liquid form, dry yeast is best option for me for storage. Although i usually make a big enough start to throw some in a 1/2 pint jar guess that could be considered liquid.
 
I think if you normally like to get a variety of yeast, RiteBrew would definitely be the way to. However, if you mainly use US-05, you're better off just getting the brick. It's a $20 - $30 dollar savings/500g (depending on brick price).

That said... I think I'm going to take advantage of RiteBrew to stock up on some yeast I don't normally use, but would like to keep them on-hand.
 
We don't really get liquid yeast around here, I've only ever used dry. I dont even rehydrate the yeast any more, or aerate the wort. Just sprinkle on top. I do 5g 1.05 brews so maybe if you have a high gravity lager you should do these things, but i dont bother and my beers are great, at least to me
 
apache_brew said:
Just randomly felt like sharing my latest aha brewing moment. For my first several years of brewing I’ve strictly built up yeast starters from single packets of liquid yeast over what has usually been the coarse of a weeks time and 2-3 stages to obtain cell counts high enough for 10-15 gallon ~1.050 OG lagers and 1.060 IPA’s. My frequency of brewing has dropped since having a couple kids, and my first venture with dry yeast was the Verdant strain with a hazy IPA. It turned out awesome and most notably I recall feeling less stressed that week because all I did was re-hydrate during my boil and my brew day was laid back. I recently had a series of German lagers to brew for an event (Helles Bock, Festbier, Munich Dunkel) and decided I’d give the CellarScience German dry yeast a chance. Picked up a 500g block and portioned individual pitches in vacuum sealed bags and waited to pitch them after knockout. First two batches I made mini starters with DME on brew day (2-3 hours before pitching) and noticed the krausen in the 5L flask had dropped by the time I pitched the beer. 3rd time around I just sprinkled the pitch directly onto the wort and holy moly, it took off like a rocket and was bubbling within 6 hours (55F pitch temp). This may have been over dramatized because I elected to also not add fermcap to this latest beer, because I woke up to yeast overblown blowoff tube in the morning, it was awesome.

So with that, I’m over building up starters and plenty happy with the results (performance & taste) I’ve been getting from various dry yeasts.

Prost!🍻
Click to expand...
I switched to dry several years ago. I haven't had a yeast problem since. And I don't rehydrate since a Fermentis biologist convinced me that it was not necessary and that it could cause an infection. I just pitch the dry into my fermenter.
 
I’ve never used a liquid yeast. Most of what I’ve seen written here and other places is complaints about failures. Of course that means nothing; we are prone to voicing our griefs over bragging about our successes. But from all I have heard, it just seemed like too much expense, too much uncertainty, and too much trouble. Having never tried it, I could be wrong.

I appreciate the heads up on the RiteBrew deal. If you are persistent, and pay attention and ask about expiration dates, you can get some good deals on EBay. There are some jerks there essentially scalping packs of yeast for outrageous prices, too. I would much rather deal with a supplier, and do when I can.

The Norwegian Kveiks have been a real game changer for me. Brewing in the South in the summer is a challenge if you’re not set up for it. I have used a Temp Twister, which makes it possible, but you are going to be tied to switching out ice jugs. Talking about fast; the Kveiks are crazy fast! I put a batch in my fermenter yesterday afternoon, sprinkled a Lutra Kveik over the top, and closed up my fermenter tight. It took me about 10 minutes to retrieve my blow off hose, sanitize it and a connector, and put some StarSan in a bottle. When I hooked it up, it depressurized the fermenter! It was already working!! I just checked and it’s dropped 20 gravity points overnight. This stuff is amazing, and happy to just chug along at 90°.

Don’t forget, you can harvest your yeast or run back to back batches on the same yeast that was originally from a dry pack.
 
tracer bullet said:
Interesting. I'm still a fan of liquid, I feel like I do appreciate and notice all the different flavors. I can say that it may be style dependent, I might notice different liquid yeasts side-by-side in an ESB or Pale Ale (and I think I do). But I do have an Imperial Stout fermenting right now with a few packs of S-05 because I would bet that I could not tell liquid options apart in the presence of so much dark malt.

I suppose you can also tweak your grains a bit accordingly. I.e. you want a little more fruitiness add some caramel 60. Want a dryer fermentation you can change your mash temps.

When my preferred LHBS (Brew & Grow) closed I moved towards Midwest and used them for a few years. With them closing it'll become RiteBrew most likely and mail ordering. I think that any summer or deep winter brews will indeed be with dry yeast from here on out. I may order liquid in spring and fall but that's it.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same boat in MN. I just picked up a few additional packs of liquid yeasts before they close for good with plans to start a frozen yeast bank but maybe I should just give this dry yeast thing a try...
 
I only produce two beers in my repertoire with liquid yeast; Imperial Loki for my house NEIPA, and Wyeast 3068 for wits/hefes. Everything else, from lagers to rarely made dark beers, gets either Notty, Lutra, or 34/70. And I reuse yeast consistently, so in a small way I guess I am using a form of liquid yeast. I get my drys mostly from Amazon; always good dating, and five packs for about $25 is a great deal compared to LHBS. Occasionally on visits to the LHBS I'll dig through the expired yeast bin to see what I might be able to build up. One of the best lagers I've ever made was done with expired (by a year!) 34/70.
 
I was using liquid yeast exclusively for years and enjoying spinning it up and propagating from a starter. Then came covid, LHBS closing, moving to desert SW. Now I get all my supplies from MoreBeer including dry yeast. Just hydrate and it’s a big time saver. Many of the commercial brewers where I came from were also using dry yeast. I’m an IPA guy, so Chico yeast is a no-brainer.
 
Last edited:
FloppyKnockers said:
I think if you normally like to get a variety of yeast, RiteBrew would definitely be the way to. However, if you mainly use US-05, you're better off just getting the brick. It's a $20 - $30 dollar savings/500g (depending on brick price).

That said... I think I'm going to take advantage of RiteBrew to stock up on some yeast I don't normally use, but would like to keep them on-hand.
Click to expand...
Doing the math on this -- 500g pack from Amazon = $85.55. Price per 11.5g=$1.96
11.5g pack ~ $7.00 (range from $3.50 to $4.00 if you buy multipacks).

If you brew enough (43 batches from a 500g bag), it's definitely worth it, since those 43 batches using 11.5g packs would cost you anywhere from $150 to $300!
 
Sounds like what I have been wanting for a long time - maybe a positive of the new online only world. Place your order within "their" order so the yeast will be fresh. Otherwise you can have them grab from existing stock.

Which store is this from?
 
I'll chime in, I haven't used my stir plate or liquid yeast in years....and I mean 5 or more. I use 05 for every ale I make, with the exception of hazys (and I use a dry mixture for that). Even my lager and pilsners get the dry yeast treatment. There isn't enough of a difference to warrant the time and energy. Oh...and I've only every hydrated a dry pack once, (many years ago). There was zero difference compared to than just dumping it in. This is with hundreds of batches under the ole belt.
 
BrewZer said:
Doing the math on this -- 500g pack from Amazon = $85.55. Price per 11.5g=$1.96
11.5g pack ~ $7.00 (range from $3.50 to $4.00 if you buy multipacks).

If you brew enough (43 batches from a 500g bag), it's definitely worth it, since those 43 batches using 11.5g packs would cost you anywhere from $150 to $300!
Click to expand...


What about repitching on the slurry? That would drive the cost per pack down even more for those multi packs. Likewise, it would "extend" the life of that $85 yeast brick too.



I too haven't used liquid in a while. The last two beers are an exception as I couldn't find dry versions (Imperial's Urkel and Que Bueno), but for the most part this past month was the first time I've broke out the flask and stir plate. I don't even rehydrate anymore. Sprinkle, shake/oxygenate, and go.

Dry yeast is pretty durable. I had a club member give me a bunch of expired yeast packets (some I still have) he planned on throwing away. I stepped up a pack of 3 year expired Bry-97 to use in an IPA and it turned out great. Those little buggers are more resilient than we realize.
 
I e tried liquid yeasts few times, both from a starter and from a slurry from a previous brew with liquid yeast, maybe if I brewed for competition, or to Authenticate a particular brew, I'd use it again, but for my average "drinking" brews, dry yeast just makes life simpler.
 
Yesfan said:
What about repitching on the slurry? That would drive the cost per pack down even more for those multi packs. Likewise, it would "extend" the life of that $85 yeast brick too.



I too haven't used liquid in a while. The last two beers are an exception as I couldn't find dry versions (Imperial's Urkel and Que Bueno), but for the most part this past month was the first time I've broke out the flask and stir plate. I don't even rehydrate anymore. Sprinkle, shake/oxygenate, and go.

Dry yeast is pretty durable. I had a club member give me a bunch of expired yeast packets (some I still have) he planned on throwing away. I stepped up a pack of 3 year expired Bry-97 to use in an IPA and it turned out great. Those little buggers are more resilient than we realize.
Click to expand...
I don’t know how the two compare, but I recently used a pack of wine yeast that had expired 10 years ago. It worked just fine. It’s not something I would recommend you depend on, but I ran across the yeast in my cooler and decided to give my old recipe a try. Yes, they are durable if you treat them right.
 
I would like nothing more than to sprinkle some dry yeast on the wort and be done, but with the few side by sides I have done with liquid vs dry, the liquids have come out ahead. There was just a slight staleness to the dry. That being said, it is almost impossible to do apples to apples with different yeasts, as there are so many variables. The dry yeast batches did improve a little after longer keg conditioning, but still were not great. For now I will continue to torture my self with starters, but may try some newer dry yeasts.
 
I started out with dry yeast because it was simple and available. I make a lot of yeast driven Belgians and wheat beers, and I could see the improvement when I went to liquid yeast with those. I’ve been blending liquid yeast strains for a while now and really like the results. My old dry yeast fermented Imperial Stouts and Barley Wines don’t taste nearly as complex as the blended liquid yeast beers I’m making now. So I’m almost 100% liquid yeast these days. I just won my first champion brewer of show, and I do approach my beer making with a competitive spirit, and for me personally the liquid yeast helps me achieve that.
 
Cloud Surfer said:
I started out with dry yeast because it was simple and available. I make a lot of yeast driven Belgians and wheat beers, and I could see the improvement when I went to liquid yeast with those. I’ve been blending liquid yeast strains for a while now and really like the results. My old dry yeast fermented Imperial Stouts and Barley Wines don’t taste nearly as complex as the blended liquid yeast beers I’m making now. So I’m almost 100% liquid yeast these days. I just won my first champion brewer of show, and I do approach my beer making with a competitive spirit, and for me personally the liquid yeast helps me achieve that.
Click to expand...
That’s great! I really think that’s fantastic. I came to brewing from an entirely different angle. I despised the overpriced, underflavored beer at the local stores. Craft beers were not a thing, at least where I live, 30 years ago. I will confess, those first beers I made back then were not all that great, but surpassing store quality was not a very high bar. I only used dry yeast then, and I was not even aware that liquid yeasts were available. It really wasn’t until the last few years that I learned about liquid yeasts, (yeah, I’m that backwards).
I’ve never had any motivation to produce a beer for competition. I’m glad others do and produce these great recipes that they (sometimes) share. Over the years, I’ve run into folks who brew, and start talking about all the different recipes they have/are trying. Me, I have a couple that are “decent”, so I make them over & over again.
I’m reminded of the “Brother Dave Gardner” piece where “Little David” is playing his ukulele at high noon, in the shade of the Great Pyramid. (😁)
A friend comments to him; “I notice when others play, they move all around playing different chords, but you just play the same chord over and over.” To which Little David replies; “Well them other cats are looking for it; I flat out found it!” 😂😂🤣

It takes all kinds, and brewing & brewers certainly have their varieties!

Brew on! Cheers! 🍻
 
OK, I’ll be the contrarian. Conditionally.

I still prefer liquid yeast, while at the same time acknowledging dry yeast’s superior durability and easy of use. I recently had a fermentation (American Pale Ale) that I used Wyeast 1217-PC from a harvested 2nd generation propagation. It was about 4 months old, so I did a viability check (it was good) followed by a two step-up build with 250 ml 1.020 SG wort and 500 ml 1.038 SG wort. Pitched around 1400 ml of krauzening starter into 6.3 gallons.

Fermentation was normal until it slowed to a near standstill 4~5 days later at 1.015 SG. Predicted SG was 1.009 based on an FFT. Conditions (temperature) had been optimal, but gravity didn’t change for the next three days. The beer was too sweet. Even after increasing to 70F, nothing changed.

Rather than dump, I broke protocol and sprinkled two sachets of Lallemand BRY-97 on top, resealed the fermenter, and had renewed activity by the next morning. The fermentation stopped at 1.005. I had to check it twice.
 
Broo,

I think your example points out that liquid yeast needs to be handled properly and be fresh if one wants a successful outcome. Clearly your 4 month old yeast was not as fresh and viable as thought. That is an advantage of dry yeast as it can be stored and stay viable as well as maybe being less expensive to pitch plenty of cells. If you had pitched some more fresh liquid yeast at the end the outcome would have been similar. The downside to dry yeast is that the process of drying harms the cells. In the end, it is convenience vs quality to some degree.
 

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