Heff Questions

Hello all,

For my second extract brew I did a heff from the LHBS. It consisted of 7# of bavarian wheat extract (Liquid), 1 1/3 oz Hallertaur (1 @ 60, 1/3 @ 10), and a Wyeast smack pack (for wheat brews, guy said it was very good for heff). Brew day was really easy and everything went fine. 4 Hours after pitching the yeast I was bubbling away, and the fermentation is still going strong. I have the beer in my second bedroom, I would say High temp since brewing was 70-72 tops, low is about 65-67.

My question is, I am getting somewhat of a sweet, banana smell from the fermenting beer. It doesn't smell bad, in fact it smells quite good. I heard this can happen if your temp is high (from what I read over 80). I want to know is this common with a Heff?

Thanks
Ian

That's from the yeast and yes, it is supposed to be there. I havent used weizen yeast enough to know if a higher/lower temp will give you more/less banana or clove flavor though so I cannot give you any advice there.

well you have to remember that during the fermentation the yeast are producing their own heat. so the wart temp is higher than the room temp. i would say its plausible that the brew is getting to warm and producing esters.

Higher temps = more banana-like flavors
Lower temps = more clove-y/spice flavors

The first year we were brewing we did a series of weizens. We did the last one in June with temps getting up to the 90s outdoors, and probably well into the 80s in our basement brew chamber.

You'd have sworn there was mushed banana on your tongue.

Yes that is from the yeast and that is a desirable characteristic for hefe beers. Generally the higher the temperature the more pronounced the yeast character in a beer. Low temp = less banana/clove, High temp = more banana/clove.

I believe that higher temps should give you more esters (banana) and lower temperatures will give you more phenolics (clove). 80 sounds like it would produce a crap-load of banana.

interesting.

What should I expect for an F.G.

How long do you typically primary/secondary/condition a heff?

btw OG was 1.050

iswenson said:

interesting.
What should I expect for an F.G.
How long do you typically primary/secondary/condition a heff?
btw OG was 1.050

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When i brew Heffe's, I usually primary for 10 days, and look for a FG of 1.015-1.017. I do not secondary Heffe's

why don't you secondary them? thanks for the target FG (I figured 1.010 so now I know I should be a bit higher)

do you have a longer conditioning time in bottles? I was planning on 2 weeks before I started to taste.

TipsyDragon said:

well you have to remember that during the fermentation the yeast are producing their own heat. so the wart temp is higher than the room temp. i would say its plausible that the brew is getting to warm and producing esters.

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not to be a pita, but yeast ALWAYS produces esters, regardless of temp, and banana esters are both prominent and appropriate in this style.

iswenson said:

why don't you secondary them?

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I think the question is: why should you do a secondary? Heff's are cloudy anyway, so it's not going to get clearer (and beers clear in the primary just fine).

Every time you move the beer, you're exposing it to oxygen, and to contaminants. Besides, yeast clean up off-flavors when they're done digesting the sugars...so why get the beer off the yeast any sooner than you have to?

You really should only secondary if you're doing a secondary fermentation...meaning that you're adding fermentables...like racking onto fruit. Or, possibly if you're dry hopping...but heck, I even dry hop in the primary.

thats what I thought I read somewhere, and why I posed the question. I did a search on Hefeweizen in this forum but couldn't find the thread I was reading so figured I would start one to get to the bottom of this.

This brought up a question from reading some of the answers. The Wyeast packet said I should ferment at 65-70 degrees for this type of yeast. I assume (probobly incorrectly) that this is the ambient temperature. Do they give you the fermentation temperature as the internal temperature of the wort/beer while fermenting? If so how do you accurately get temperature readings without constantly messing with the brew. I just have a thermometer (bourdon-tube type) on top of the ferm bucket. Any ideas (besides a remote temp sensor set up) would be greatly appreciated.

There are little temp stickers out there that you apply to your bucket/carboy. Probably cost $2. They're fan-freaking-tastic.

like the ones for the fish tanks....yea i saw those at my LHBS. So stick one of those on my fermenter and use that to gauge whether I am at my target temp?

iswenson said:

like the ones for the fish tanks....yea i saw those at my LHBS. So stick one of those on my fermenter and use that to gauge whether I am at my target temp?

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Roger that.

as Wendel said, You want a Heffe to be cloudy, is the main reason.

Alot of us have given up secondary except on long term beers (ie Barleywine, RIS, which may condition for several months before bottling) and simply leave it in primary for upto a month. As long as you don't shake up the fermenter before siphoning, and don't suck up the gunk at the bottom, it will be quite clear.

One of the reasons you might be surprised by the banana ester smell is, you might be used to drinking American style heffs. Widmer, Squatters etc.

The American strains of yeast tend to produce a cleaner crisp heff without the banana flavor.

The Bavarian strands of yeast are made to give off those banana fruity esters. I personally am not a big fan of Bavarian heffs because of this. Just my taste pref.

Before I had any temp control I brewed a heff at 75 the whole way. The esters were not that bad. As for your heff, as long as you can stay lower then 75+ you will be fine.

As far as I remember, Wyeast packets don't have strain specific instructions, they just have generic "how to use yeast" instructions. It gets stamped in the front with the yeast strain code, you have to go to the website for that particular strain to get the temperature and attenuation for that strain. I'm fairly sure wheat strains can go up to 75 (at least Wyeast's German Hefeweizen, Bavarian Wheat and Weihestephaner do).

The style doesn't really dictate the balance between banana and clove. Some hefes are like a banana party (Franziskaner and Hacker Pschor are the ones I remember), while others are much more subdued. Brew warm for bananas or cool for cloves, but either way it's still in style.

Now, if you weren't expecting bananas, it might be a terminology thing. You might have been expecting a "Hefeweizen" like Pyramid, which is cleaner tasting, but that is what most people here would call an "American Wheat". If you just mention Hefeweizen, most people will think about a Bavarian-style Hefe, which is probably the yeast that your LHBS guy gave you.

I wasn't really looking for anything in particular (american/bavarian). I am rather new to brewing, so I figured I should just try a bunch of different brews to get accustomed to different styles. Also, the Hefe recipe I have was very simple. Just LME, hops, and yeast. Plus, it seems that this beer does not need as much time in the fermenter as others.

On a side note, I was reading a thread about a blood orange hefe. Basically you steep some blood oranges and there zest in water, then add to the wort before pitching the yeast (some people added to a secondary). I may add this to the primary this weekend and let it sit for another week (2 weeks total). Any thoughts on this?

anyone got a suggestion here?