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Leadgolem said:
Hey Stauff, I was looking around for an avatar for you and I ran into this. Not a black and white, but...
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Thanks LG! That's actually very similar to a family crest that I used as my avatar on here for quite some time. Notice the same theme with the cup. Is it any surprise that I love to drink beer?!

600771_4006394087772_2112377943_n.jpg
 
I think I just figured out why my Brett. beers are fermenting so slowly - they were extremely underpitched. Despite the instructions on the White Labs vial that says the contents are good for 5 gallons of beer, the rest of the world apparently thinks that is bunk and recommends large starters for WL yeasts :mad: I could either buy more yeast (not likely at $7 a pop) or try to culture up a starter from my Brett-only batch and add it back to both brews. Or I could just let them both ride as-is.

I hate following instructions to the letter, then finding out I have been led astray. Grr....
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
I think I just figured out why my Brett. beers are fermenting so slowly - they were extremely underpitched. Despite the instructions on the White Labs vial that says the contents are good for 5 gallons of beer, the rest of the world apparently thinks that is bunk and recommends large starters for WL yeasts :mad: I could either buy more yeast (not likely at $7 a pop) or try to culture up a starter from my Brett-only batch and add it back to both brews. Or I could just let them both ride as-is.

I hate following instructions to the letter, then finding out I have been led astray. Grr....
Click to expand...
That reminds me of the instructions that say a 5 gram packet of dry yeast is good for 5 gallons. Sure it is, if your OG is 1.020. Since most of mine are more like 1.100 I usually make a starter for a 5 gallon batch. Shenanigans...
 
Leadgolem said:
That reminds me of the instructions that say a 5 gram packet of dry yeast is good for 5 gallons. Sure it is, if your OG is 1.020. Since most of mine are more like 1.100 I usually make a starter for a 5 gallon batch. Shenanigans...
Click to expand...

Starter for dry yeast? Say what?
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
I think I just figured out why my Brett. beers are fermenting so slowly - they were extremely underpitched. Despite the instructions on the White Labs vial that says the contents are good for 5 gallons of beer, the rest of the world apparently thinks that is bunk and recommends large starters for WL yeasts :mad: I could either buy more yeast (not likely at $7 a pop) or try to culture up a starter from my Brett-only batch and add it back to both brews. Or I could just let them both ride as-is.

I hate following instructions to the letter, then finding out I have been led astray. Grr....
Click to expand...

Looking at the vial didn't make your bs detector go off?
 
Leadgolem said:
Sure, anything more then 1.080 gets a starter. Dry yeast or no.
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How do you make your starters for wine? I hadn't thought of it, but I only have one 5g pack for the peach wine I plan to make. I'm sure it will be a high gravity. Do you just make a simple syrup for the starter? Do you hydrate first and then add the hydrated yeast to the starter?
 
Leadgolem said:
Sure, anything more then 1.080 gets a starter. Dry yeast or no.
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Why not just use another pack of yeast? Dry yeast's main advantage is that you don't need to oxygenate and you lose that by making a starter.

Stauffbier said:
How do you make your starters for wine? I hadn't thought of it, but I only have one 5g pack for the peach wine I plan to make. I'm sure it will be a high gravity. Do you just make a simple syrup for the starter? Do you hydrate first and then add the hydrated yeast to the starter?
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At under $1 a pack, I'd just use another pack.
 
I always pull a 1qt jar of hot wort before it boils. Put a lid on it and let it cool. Boom, canned wort ready for my next brew day. I use that qt to make my starter for the next beer, adding water to adjust the gravity.
 
TNGabe said:
At under $1 a pack, I'd just use another pack.
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Normally that's what I do with beer. I use US 05 quite often, and I'll double up packs on big beers all the time. The only problem is I'm making my wine in a week, but I don't plan on making any online supply orders for a while. I have a huge grocery list growing on Austin Homebrew, but I won't have the money to place the order for a few weeks. I don't have a lhbs..
 
snaps10 said:
I always pull a 1qt jar of hot wort before it boils. Put a lid on it and let it cool. Boom, canned wort ready for my next brew day. I use that qt to make my starter for the next beer, adding water to adjust the gravity.
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I basically do the same thing with beer. I always sparge out a little extra wort for starters. I've never made a starter for wine with wine yeast before though. I'm thinking for wine you would use plain table sugar and water as opposed to using maltose. I'm just guessing, though. It's my first batch of wine, so I'm a noob all over again.
 
snaps10 said:
I always pull a 1qt jar of hot wort before it boils. Put a lid on it and let it cool. Boom, canned wort ready for my next brew day. I use that qt to make my starter for the next beer, adding water to adjust the gravity.
Click to expand...

I'll keep wort in the fridge, but I always re-boil before I use for starters. What you're doing fall somewhere between poor sanitation and asking for botulism.

Stauffbier said:
Normally that's what I do with beer. I use US 05 quite often, and I'll double up packs on big beers all the time. The only problem is I'm making my wine in a week, but I don't plan on making any online supply orders for a while. I have a huge grocery list growing on Austin Homebrew, but I won't have the money to place the order for a few weeks. I don't have a lhbs..
Click to expand...

I can mail you some Saturday if it will help or tomorrow if you want Redstar cuvee or some out of date ec-1118.
 
Stauffbier said:
How do you make your starters for wine? I hadn't thought of it, but I only have one 5g pack for the peach wine I plan to make. I'm sure it will be a high gravity. Do you just make a simple syrup for the starter? Do you hydrate first and then add the hydrated yeast to the starter?
Click to expand...
It depends on what I'm making. I prefer to use the same combination of sugars as would be present in the wine. So, usually I use the juice that's going to go in the wine diluted to about 1.030. If I'm going to use nutrients in the batch, I usually do, then I dissolve those in the starter before adding the yeast.

TNGabe said:
Why not just use another pack of yeast? Dry yeast's main advantage is that you don't need to oxygenate and you lose that by making a starter.



At under $1 a pack, I'd just use another pack.
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Interesting. The main reason I use dry yeast is that I can leave it in my fridge almost indefinitely without worrying about it being viable when I go to use it. The aeration thing is nice and all, but with dry yeast I can have a half dozen yeast strains on hand without taking up much space or needing to refresh them constantly.

It's also generally more like four packets.

Besides, why should I pay the extra money for more yeast packets when I can just make a starter? Granted, it's not a lot of money. A batch of cider only costs me about $30 to make though. So an extra 3 for more yeast packets is annoying. I also harvest yeast from the yeast cake in the fermentor. Why not? It's free, so even if I do end up throwing it out because it's old I haven't lost anything.

I can certainly understand wanting the convenience of just cutting a packet open and pitching it. I do that with small batches. I just prefer to make a starter if I'm going to do a batch that needs more yeast then one packet will provide.

snaps10 said:
I always pull a 1qt jar of hot wort before it boils. Put a lid on it and let it cool. Boom, canned wort ready for my next brew day. I use that qt to make my starter for the next beer, adding water to adjust the gravity.
Click to expand...
I don't make beer, so that's not applicable. It's a great idea for those that do though.
 
That reminded me, so I went and put together a starter myself. It's a good excuse to use my stir plate. I haven't decided if I want to do another batch of banana wine, or something awful. Something awful would be fermented sugar water solution with nutrients. The idea being to use it as neutral mixer and add flavored syrups to it. I could also use the syrup in just carbonated water to make custom soda.
 
TNGabe said:
I'll keep wort in the fridge, but I always re-boil before I use for starters. What you're doing fall somewhere between poor sanitation and asking for botulism.



I can mail you some Saturday if it will help or tomorrow if you want Redstar cuvee or some out of date ec-1118.
Click to expand...

Re-boiling isn't going to solve botulism. If you want to safely have canned wort you must use a pressure canner. IMHO. However if you brew very often, you'd probably be okay.
 
Woke up yo a completely dead cell phone. Wasted hours trying to find a away to get it to boot in any mode so I could revive it, all for nothing. Now I have reset up all the settings, apps etc on the new one. PITA.
 
LRB, sure happy you're back. Technology is great, especially the mobile stuff; until batteries go dead. I'm not laughing.

Been watching an old movie.

:mug:
 
TNGabe said:
I'll keep wort in the fridge, but I always re-boil before I use for starters. What you're doing fall somewhere between poor sanitation and asking for botulism. I can mail you some Saturday if it will help or tomorrow if you want Redstar cuvee or some out of date ec-1118.
Click to expand...

How so? Wort at 190 degrees is sanitary. Poured into a sanitized mason jar and allowed to cool then kept in the fridge. The jars are sealed. I've done probably 30 batches like this without issue.
 
Leadgolem said:
I don't make beer, so that's not applicable. It's a great idea for those that do though.
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Forgot who I was talking to! Let us know how the wine starter goes. I imagine just sugar would be sufficient. I've only made one batch of wine though, and it really wasn't very good.
 
snaps10 said:
How so? Wort at 190 degrees is sanitary. Poured into a sanitized mason jar and allowed to cool then kept in the fridge. The jars are sealed. I've done probably 30 batches like this without issue.
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Botulinum thrives in anaerobic environments (eg sealed mason jars) and the spores can survive even boiling temps, hence the need for pressure-canning (to reach the necessary ~250°) anything not sufficiently acidic, such as wort.
 
Wow. Good to know. Don't know how I didn't know this. Maybe I'll just go back to using DME.
 
LabRatBrewer said:
Re-boiling isn't going to solve botulism. If you want to safely have canned wort you must use a pressure canner. IMHO. However if you brew very often, you'd probably be okay.
Click to expand...

I only keep refrigerated wort around for a short time. Can't be any more dangerous than keeping sweet tea in the fridge, right? Surely better than putting unboiled wort in a jar to cool on its own and leaving it out.

I did my first batch of pressure canned wort a couple weeks ago. Did a whole 5 gallon batch. Borrowed a friends apocalypse sized canner.

With all the brett I've been growing up to send out, 19 qt jars aren't lasting very long, especially since with break material it's more like 750ml of usable wort per jar.

Do you pressure can wort? Any tips? Next time I'm thinking of chiling the wort, transferring off the break, and then filling the jars to try and get better yield per jar.
 
snaps10 said:
How so? Wort at 190 degrees is sanitary. Poured into a sanitized mason jar and allowed to cool then kept in the fridge. The jars are sealed. I've done probably 30 batches like this without issue.
Click to expand...

Oh, you keep it in the fridge. I do about the same, although as LRB pointed out, those temps won't kill spores, but keeping it cold won't allow them to grow either. When you said 'canned' I'd assumed you mean shelf stable which clearly isn't what you meant.
 
emjay said:
Botulinum thrives in anaerobic environments (eg sealed mason jars) and the spores can survive even boiling temps, hence the need for pressure-canning (to reach the necessary ~250°) anything not sufficiently acidic, such as wort.
Click to expand...

Boiling won't kill the Clostridium botulinum bacterium, but it will denature the toxins created by it. So, in the case of stored wort, there isn't a health hazard as long as it is boiled once opened.

So, if you are storing wort (in warm, closed containers) for making starters, you must boil and cool before you add your yeast.
 
passedpawn said:
Boiling won't kill the Clostridium botulinum bacterium, but it will denature the toxins created by it. So, in the case of stored wort, there isn't a health hazard as long as it is boiled once opened.

So, if you are storing wort (in warm, closed containers) for making starters, you must boil and cool before you add your yeast.
Click to expand...

Good to know. It's amazing what there is to learn here on Home Botulism Talk.
 
Gabe, thanks for the yeast offer, but I'm, going to pass. It has occurred to me that I'm out of yeast nutrient and campden for my water as well. I'll just put off this batch of wine until I can order my goods.

When I save wort from my mash I put it in empty water jugs and freeze them. When I want to use it for starters I thaw the day before, and then boil it for about 10-15 mins. This usually gets me in the right gravity range for starters, too, since the wort is typically around 1.020 to 1.025 before boiling. I'd really like to buy a pressure canner for a number of reasons someday.
 
TNGabe said:
I only keep refrigerated wort around for a short time. Can't be any more dangerous than keeping sweet tea in the fridge, right? Surely better than putting unboiled wort in a jar to cool on its own and leaving it out.

I did my first batch of pressure canned wort a couple weeks ago. Did a whole 5 gallon batch. Borrowed a friends apocalypse sized canner.

With all the brett I've been growing up to send out, 19 qt jars aren't lasting very long, especially since with break material it's more like 750ml of usable wort per jar.

Do you pressure can wort? Any tips? Next time I'm thinking of chiling the wort, transferring off the break, and then filling the jars to try and get better yield per jar.
Click to expand...

I've only canned one batch at a friends home brewery using his giant pressure cooker. All that wort is long gone, and I am hoping to buy a canning pressure cooker (this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000BYCFU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) soon. Passedpawn is right, there is a ton of lively debate on the subject here. Personally, I liked having it in the can :confused: and I still kept it in the fridge which was unnecessary since it was canned, but I had the room and it made me feel better.
 
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Stauffbier said:
Gabe, thanks for the yeast offer, but I'm, going to pass. It has occurred to me that I'm out of yeast nutrient and campden for my water as well. I'll just put off this batch of wine until I can order my goods.

When I save wort from my mash I put it in empty water jugs and freeze them. When I want to use it for starters I thaw the day before, and then boil it for about 10-15 mins. This usually gets me in the right gravity range for starters, too, since the wort is typically around 1.020 to 1.025 before boiling. I'd really like to buy a pressure canner for a number of reasons someday.
Click to expand...

Freezing the wort is an interesting alternative.
 
LabRatBrewer said:
Freezing the wort is an interesting alternative.
Click to expand...

I have a stand-up freezer, a beer fridge with a freezer, and my kitchen fridge with a freezer, so I have plenty of room for freezing gallon jugs. With that said, I still run out and have to use DME, but it does save me a lot of money.
 
Stauffbier said:
I have a stand-up freezer, a beer fridge with a freezer, and my kitchen fridge with a freezer, so I have plenty of room for freezing gallon jugs. With that said, I still run out and have to use DME, but it does save me a lot of money.
Click to expand...

I have a keezer which rarely runs at freezing, a chest freezer (but my brother-in-law is a fisherman, so the freezer is usually filled with fish) and no longer have my spare fridge/freezer. Nonetheless, I like the idea of freezing. May not save much time, but would save cost (all grain wort vs. dme). Hopefully I can find some man-money and just buy the pressure cooker mentioned above (or below depending on your orientation).
 
I like the looks of that pressure cooker. That seems to be a pretty good price, too! I'd really like to get one, as well.
 
I almost bought that Presto cooker. It's a good deal. If you want to see the brick ****house, look for the All American cookers. They are very heavy (and expensive), but man they are made in America and built for speed.

My kids bought me one that wasn't exactly what I wanted, but it works great. Some odd make that I can't remember.
 

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