Wiring Diagram Double Check

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doug293cz said:
Your secondary bus needs to come off the switched side of the main power contactor. As shown, you are powering the secondary bus (and everything connected to it) directly from the power mains, with no way to turn off.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

The Key Switch and E-Stop won't be protected that way, correct?
 
  • Reran the line 1 secondary bus so it's now switched.
  • Drew-in another fuse to protect the key switch and E-stop.

I think this just about covers everything, yes?

fDuk2bZ.jpg
 
HarpuaScorpio said:
  • Reran the line 1 secondary bus so it's now switched.
  • Drew-in another fuse to protect the key switch and E-stop.

I think this just about covers everything, yes?

fDuk2bZ.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help!

I plan on using these pushbuttons as my "main power" and "element firing" indicator lights (i know the pushbuttons wont actually do anything, just like the look of them)

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=328

It looks like the LED voltage is only 110V so i tried to modify the drawing correctly. Just want to make sure ive done it the right right, or if there is a better way. Thanks again!

5500w-BIAB-30 Amp 2.jpg
 
HarpuaScorpio said:
Phew! Now to find the time to start the build.

Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions. This has been a very positive learning experience.
Click to expand...

actually, just noticed your element firing led is wired up at 120v. as long as your element enable switch is closed and the element contactor is energized, that light will be on, regardless if the ssr is firing or not. i believe your intent is to have the element firing led illuminated when the ssr is closed and the element is actually heating. if so, you will need a 220v light connected across the load-side of the element contactor, like in your previous sketch.
 
itsnotrequired said:
actually, just noticed your element firing led is wired up at 120v. as long as your element enable switch is closed and the element contactor is energized, that light will be on, regardless if the ssr is firing or not. i believe your intent is to have the element firing led illuminated when the ssr is closed and the element is actually heating. if so, you will need a 220v light connected across the load-side of the element contactor, like in your previous sketch.
Click to expand...

Yep, I missed that.

Brew on :mug:
 
itsnotrequired said:
actually, just noticed your element firing led is wired up at 120v. as long as your element enable switch is closed and the element contactor is energized, that light will be on, regardless if the ssr is firing or not. i believe your intent is to have the element firing led illuminated when the ssr is closed and the element is actually heating. if so, you will need a 220v light connected across the load-side of the element contactor, like in your previous sketch.
Click to expand...

I think you're looking at jonatr0n's customization of my final design. My final one that I plan to use is from my 9/27/15 3:20pm post (post #43).
 
itsnotrequired said:
actually, just noticed your element firing led is wired up at 120v. as long as your element enable switch is closed and the element contactor is energized, that light will be on, regardless if the ssr is firing or not. i believe your intent is to have the element firing led illuminated when the ssr is closed and the element is actually heating. if so, you will need a 220v light connected across the load-side of the element contactor, like in your previous sketch.
Click to expand...

An easier way is to just keep the 110V LED and wire it up to his RED hot line instead of the black on the contactor output side going to his outlet no? Red is his controlled hot line through the SSR/Contactor...

I dont see the need for a 220V LED....
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
An easier way is to just keep the 110V LED and wire it up to his RED hot line instead of the black on the contactor output side going to his outlet no? Red is his controlled hot line through the SSR/Contactor...

I dont see the need for a 220V LED....
Click to expand...

duh, even easier:drunk:

do what fuzze suggests.:tank:
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
An easier way is to just keep the 110V LED and wire it up to his RED hot line instead of the black on the contactor output side going to his outlet no? Red is his controlled hot line through the SSR/Contactor...

I dont see the need for a 220V LED....
Click to expand...

This probably won't work, as the LED would still be connected to 120 V thru the element. The element won't drop enough voltage with only the LED current flow to keep the LED from turning on.

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
This probably won't work, as the LED would still be connected to 120 V thru the element. The element won't drop enough voltage with only the LED current flow to keep the LED from turning on.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

This. 240v led in parallel with the element if you want the led off when the element is off.
 
doug293cz said:
This probably won't work, as the LED would still be connected to 120 V thru the element. The element won't drop enough voltage with only the LED current flow to keep the LED from turning on.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

damn, didn't even think of that. i knew there was a reason those lights are always 220v across both poles...
 
Sorry harpua, didn't mean to thread hijack! Thanks everyone for the help. looks like im returning them for the 240V!
 
Do you mean if I remove the main contractor then the E-stop switch would no longer work?

As it is currently wires, everything would work properly though?
 
jonatr0n said:
Do you mean if I remove the main contractor then the E-stop switch would no longer work?

As it is currently wires, everything would work properly though?
Click to expand...

as indicated in the diagram, it is fine. the e-stop button breaks the circuit energizing the coil on the main contactor, causing the contactor to open and remove power to the entire panel. the key switch does the same thing but in an emergency, it is easier to slam down a big red button than turn a key.

looking closer at your question, it sounds like you want to replace the keyswitch with the 32 amp switch and leave the main contactor in there? if so, the 32 amp switch would be wired in series with the main contactor, not wired in the same way the key switch would be. the e-stop would still work in this case but having a 32 amp switch and main contactor would be somewhat redundant. the main contactor is there as a means of providing complete isolation at the panel, which could be accomplished by the 32 amp switch. plus the 32 amp switch takes up a lot more physical space than the key switch. it doesn't hurt to have both but one or the other is more practical.
 
itsnotrequired said:
as indicated in the diagram, it is fine. the e-stop button breaks the circuit energizing the coil on the main contactor, causing the contactor to open and remove power to the entire panel. the key switch does the same thing but in an emergency, it is easier to slam down a big red button than turn a key.

looking closer at your question, it sounds like you want to replace the keyswitch with the 32 amp switch and leave the main contactor in there? if so, the 32 amp switch would be wired in series with the main contactor, not wired in the same way the key switch would be. the e-stop would still work in this case but having a 32 amp switch and main contactor would be somewhat redundant. the main contactor is there as a means of providing complete isolation at the panel, which could be accomplished by the 32 amp switch. plus the 32 amp switch takes up a lot more physical space than the key switch. it doesn't hurt to have both but one or the other is more practical.
Click to expand...

Something like this? (the "keyswitch" would be the 32A switch)

asdf.jpg
 
yes, the above will work. the proposed 32 amp switch has three contacts (for use with three-phase power systems), you only need to use two of them. one contact would be for one hot (red) and the second contact would be for the other hot (black). the white (neutral) and ground (green) conductors should not be switched by the 32 amp switch.
 
itsnotrequired said:
yes, the above will work. the proposed 32 amp switch has three contacts (for use with three-phase power systems), you only need to use two of them. one contact would be for one hot (red) and the second contact would be for the other hot (black). the white (neutral) and ground (green) conductors should not be switched by the 32 amp switch.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thank you for the help
 
itsnotrequired said:
yes, the above will work. the proposed 32 amp switch has three contacts (for use with three-phase power systems), you only need to use two of them. one contact would be for one hot (red) and the second contact would be for the other hot (black). the white (neutral) and ground (green) conductors should not be switched by the 32 amp switch.
Click to expand...

I made a mistake and accidentally purchased a 40A contactor instead of the 30A. As long as its rated higher than the full load it shouldn't be a problem should it? Would it be better to use the 40A with the element or with the e-stop?
 
Finally getting around to wiring and i think this is what i ended up with. Everything look alright?
xepLPKF.jpg
 
Edit: Never mind. I see that the "key switch" isn't really a key switch, but rather a high current switch.

Edit 2: Funny, I just did a design that does pretty much the same thing, but keeps the key switch, and adds a pump switch.

PID DSPR1 Pump 240V only.PNG

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
Edit: Never mind. I see that the "key switch" isn't really a key switch, but rather a high current switch.

Edit 2: Funny, I just did a design that does pretty much the same thing, but keeps the key switch, and adds a pump switch.

View attachment 331095

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

Afhiabi.jpg


This is the switch I am using for my "key switch". I'm assuming the two hot leads just go in L1 and L2 from the inlet and come out T1 and T2? And L3/T3 are not to be used.

Also, I am a little confused on how the 3-position (4 N/O) switch is to be wired? I purchased the additional contact blocks so that there is a set of two contacts mounted on another set of two contacts. However, I'm not 100% sure which contact blocks should match up to the PID and DSPR. Additionally, are there only supposed to be two wires going to the SSR or should there be 4? If anyone might be able to give a quick detailed sketch of that switch it would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Alright I got everything wired up and used a multimeter to check to make sure i was getting power out of all of the outlets. The 120V outlets all worked fine, but on the element outlet I could only get 120V out of one of the legs, the other would just read 0. Even when I turned the 3 position switch to the DSPR and adjusted the % I still wasn't getting anything out. Was I doing something wrong or perhaps something messed up in the wiring?
 
jonatr0n said:
Alright I got everything wired up and used a multimeter to check to make sure i was getting power out of all of the outlets. The 120V outlets all worked fine, but on the element outlet I could only get 120V out of one of the legs, the other would just read 0. Even when I turned the 3 position switch to the DSPR and adjusted the % I still wasn't getting anything out. Was I doing something wrong or perhaps something messed up in the wiring?
Click to expand...

Have you checked the polarity of the control signals to the SSR? What's the voltage between pins 1 & 2 of the SSR with the element unplugged and with it plugged in?

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
Have you checked the polarity of the control signals to the SSR? What's the voltage between pins 1 & 2 of the SSR with the element unplugged and with it plugged in?

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

Doug, i was able to get some voltage readings today and unfortunately it left me even more dumbfounded. Keep in mind, I am electrical novice, but somethings not right. Here is what I found...
X22IId9h.jpg
 
jonatr0n said:
Doug, i was able to get some voltage readings today and unfortunately it left me even more dumbfounded. Keep in mind, I am electrical novice, but somethings not right. Here is what I found...
X22IId9h.jpg
Click to expand...

Was your element plugged in when you tested pin 2 of the SSR? I'm guessing it was not. According to Crydom (a major manufacturer of SSR's) you cannot properly test an SSR with a voltmeter. To check the SSR output you should have the power on and the element plugged in (obviously the element should be in a large volume of water.)

The control outputs of the PID and DSPR1 are floating w.r.t ground, so trying to measure voltage between them and ground won't give good data. What you want to do is:
  1. Unplug the element
  2. Put the control selector switch in the DSPR1 position
  3. Set the DSPR1 to 100% output
  4. Measure the voltage between pins 3 & 4 of the SSR with the voltmeter on a DC scale

I would do the test on pins 3 & 4 before doing the hot element test.

Brew on :mug:
 
You are correct, the element was not plugged in when testing. I'll try what you suggested and report back. Thanks!
 

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