eh, hard to say 'most', at least in my neck of the woods. certainly some though. can't really fault them though for wanting to protect their interests.
Wiring for 240 volt properly
- Thread starter thekraken
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
eh, hard to say 'most', at least in my neck of the woods. certainly some though. can't really fault them though for wanting to protect their interests.
Any person capable of buiding an AG brew rig by themselves has far surpassed the required intelligence and competence of a master electrician long, long ago.
Electricians are the upper-middle class of blue-collar workers. Most people who build their own brew rigs are having those sort of people report to their own underlings.
Umm, yeah, you can. Information is a commodity nowadays, not a trade secret.
the nec is available for free online, nothing is being withheld from the public. anyone can get a copy, read it and determine the requirements. an electrician is in no way obligated to offer up his knowledge/experience for free. i, on the other hand, have no problem offering advice or guidance.:fro:
Attempting to publicly devalue the ability to understand and perform anything with competence, from those who would not pay you for access to free information, is not cool.
i'll agree with that. if someone doesn't want to help, they should politely decline and leave it at that.
user 163849
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2013
- Messages
- 296
- Reaction score
- 96
Well said podz.
I guess they think if they make it sound too complicated and deadly, people will hire a pro instead of risking diy. That's exactly the kind of "help" nobody needs.
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
@itsnotrequired and any one else, I have room for another conductor in my conduit. Any good reason I shouldn't do an 'edison 3 wire' and run two 20 amp circuits instead of just the one? I realize I'd need a double pole 20amp breaker.
I did some brief reading about it, seems that it's allowed but frowned upon... though I'm already doing this with the 30amp circuit.
I do plan on running a computer and electronics off this 20amp, I read this might have issues?
I did some brief reading about it, seems that it's allowed but frowned upon... though I'm already doing this with the 30amp circuit.
I do plan on running a computer and electronics off this 20amp, I read this might have issues?
you are referring to a multiwire branch circuit. these are permitted by code and while not necessarily frowned upon, are not that common anymore. it is a technique for saving a neutral conductor. for this application, i would recommend not going with a multiwire branch circuit and installing the 20 amp circuit as a 'regular' circuit.
regarding running electronics off that same circuit, it should not be an issue unless you are running some type of super-sensitive measurement equipment. think of all the other electronics in your house such as computers, tvs, audio/video equipment, etc. these run just fine off of common circuits.
regarding running electronics off that same circuit, it should not be an issue unless you are running some type of super-sensitive measurement equipment. think of all the other electronics in your house such as computers, tvs, audio/video equipment, etc. these run just fine off of common circuits.
several reasons:
- two pole breaker more expensive than single pole
- an extra empty slot gets used up in your panel
- you need to group the conductors at the panelboard with a cable tie or similar
- neutral needs to be pigtail wired at all but the last receptacle
if none of this stuff bothers you or you really want separate circuits, go for it. we aren't taking about huge costs or effort here.
This is probably the biggest limiting factor. While my main panel still has plenty of space, both of my subpanels are crammed full and difficult to manage.
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
So after I started this thread last year I got my spa panel and pvc conduit hung. At that point this project got put on hold.
Well now I'm finally back at it and I have another question:
I'm running a 30 amp circuit with 10awg thhn, and a 20 amp with 12awg thhn in 1" pvc conduit. Do we care if it's stranded or solid thhn?
.. And let's say, hypothetically, that I already pulled all stranded wires. Thoughts on crimp connectors? I do have a good pair of ratcheting crimps from the control panel build.
Well now I'm finally back at it and I have another question:
I'm running a 30 amp circuit with 10awg thhn, and a 20 amp with 12awg thhn in 1" pvc conduit. Do we care if it's stranded or solid thhn?
.. And let's say, hypothetically, that I already pulled all stranded wires. Thoughts on crimp connectors? I do have a good pair of ratcheting crimps from the control panel build.
ingchr1
Well-Known Member
Stranded is what you wanted for pulling through conduit.
Not sure how your setup is, but what is the need for connectors on the end of your wire pulls? Do they go to a receptacle or breaker, if so they shouldn't need connectors.
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
I went ahead and changed out the 12 awg stranded for solid wire for the ease of wiring up all the 120v receptacles. The local big box stores don't even carry 10 awg thhn solid.
I have:
3 ea. 10 awg stranded wires go from the main panel screw lugs -> spa panel screw lugs-> standard dryer receptacle side wiring screws.
2 ea. 12 awg solid wires from main panel screw lugs -> a series of 120v receptacles.
1 ea. 10 awg stranded ground wire shared between the 120 and 240 v circuits.
I wound up putting ring crimp terminals on the ground wire (10awg standded) to screw to each of the metal gang boxes, as well as fork crimp terminals to the 120v ground receptacles.
Everything is wired up and registering correctly on my multimeters. The GFCI's are functioning. finally, my little outlet tester gizmo says everything checks out fine.
One(ish) FINAL question: The 10awg stranded wire frays out from underneath the pressure of screw terminals within the panel boxes. Some of these 'stray' strands aren't themselves making good contact within the lug, overall the wires are nice and snug of course. Is this to be expected? Or something I need to correct? What's standard procedure here?
Winger22
Member
Dress the ends with solder and you will not have loose strands.
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
But is this necessary?
what terminals are you terminating the stranded conductors on? the circuit breaker data sheets should indicate what type of conductors are allowed to be terminated on the device. do you have a model number for the device?
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
Stranded conductors are going into ground and neutral bars, and the 30 amp main breaker and gfci spa panel breaker.
The spa panel model # is 1 E68341 VOL. 1
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...el-Disconnect-with-GFI-UG412RMW250P/100686230.
The spa panel's breaker came with a stranded neutral conductor already connected between the breaker and neutral bar.
I couldn't find a model number on the main panel. It's a cutler-hammer, there are a few pictures in post #1.
Honestly, it wasn't the connection within the breakers that I was questioning so much as the connections on the bus bars.
For example (this is really hard to get a decent picture of):
Stranded conductors are going into ground and neutral bars, and the 30 amp main breaker and gfci spa panel breaker.
The spa panel model # is 1 E68341 VOL. 1
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...el-Disconnect-with-GFI-UG412RMW250P/100686230.
The spa panel's breaker came with a stranded neutral conductor already connected between the breaker and neutral bar.
I couldn't find a model number on the main panel. It's a cutler-hammer, there are a few pictures in post #1.
Honestly, it wasn't the connection within the breakers that I was questioning so much as the connections on the bus bars.
For example (this is really hard to get a decent picture of):
more than likely, the bars are rated for solid or stranded conductors but make sure you are using the appropriate size opening for your conductor size. those bars often have larger holes for larger conductors than have a minimum conductor size. if your conductor is smaller than the minimum, you may not get a good connection.
EDIT: didn't see the picture before but you are fine. just make sure the terminal screw is properly torqued down.
OP
OP
thekraken
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I added the pic in an edit. Thank you everyone for all the patience and advice.
I had a similar question and haven't been able to verify from searching. But when wiring an 20amp 240volt outlet it says use 2 hots to the posts and neutral/ground to the ground screw. Aren't neutral and ground 2 different things? Are they interchangeable? I would assume ground is ground is ground why have it if neutral serves the same purpose??? Any of the qualified electricians around here want to enlighten my ignorance???
Edit: the reason I ask is I am trying to step down a existing 30amp dryer feed to a spa panel and 20amp breaker and outlet. The dryer feed is 10/3 (2 hits and a neutral) and the wiring diagram I found for 20amp 240volt outlet said to wire ground/neutral to the ground screw in the outlet. If this is ok I can use the existing 10/3 wire if they're not interchangeable I will need to pull a ground wire from somewhere to tie into the outlets ground. The spa panel I got also only has the 2 hot connections and a single bus bar for the neutral leg. If I do need a seperate ground where/how would I go about connecting that to the spa panel. I had read older wiring sometimes would connect ground and neutral to the same bus bar and just want to verify that is safe before I electrocute myself accidentally while thinking I was ok.
Edit: the reason I ask is I am trying to step down a existing 30amp dryer feed to a spa panel and 20amp breaker and outlet. The dryer feed is 10/3 (2 hits and a neutral) and the wiring diagram I found for 20amp 240volt outlet said to wire ground/neutral to the ground screw in the outlet. If this is ok I can use the existing 10/3 wire if they're not interchangeable I will need to pull a ground wire from somewhere to tie into the outlets ground. The spa panel I got also only has the 2 hot connections and a single bus bar for the neutral leg. If I do need a seperate ground where/how would I go about connecting that to the spa panel. I had read older wiring sometimes would connect ground and neutral to the same bus bar and just want to verify that is safe before I electrocute myself accidentally while thinking I was ok.
The neutral is a current carrying conductor. If you look at your neural barin your panel you should see a green screw that goes through it into the metal box which is attached to your ground bar .
I would make sure you have a ground. If you have to buy some 12 thnn wire and add it to the 10/3 if it doesn't have one in it already .
Similar threads
