Brewing a Black and Red

I received a request from a co-worker yesterday asking for a Framboise Lambic mixed with a Stout.

I'm a bit intrigued by the idea of brewing a chocolate stout then dumping about five or six lbs of raspberries into the beer and inoculating it with Brett.

On the other side of the coin, I've also considered making a stout and also a lambic and mixing the two at the time of bottling; however, I am concerned that the yeast from the higher gravity lambic will start munching on any residuals l. Is this a valid concern?

Either way, I have about six months to test and create this concoction and I'm a greenhorn with lambics. Can anyone give some guidance as to the yeast I should use? I'd like to get some notes of vanilla in there.

One stout with brett and bugs that comes to mind is Jolly Pumpkin's Madrugada Obscura. Below is a link to a thread on a Can You Brew It clone recipe which may be a good starting point for the base recipe, yeast, and fermentation and brett/souring bug additions.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-jolly-pumpkin-madrugada-obscura-177964/

Budvar said:

I received a request from a co-worker yesterday asking for a Framboise Lambic mixed with a Stout.

I'm a bit intrigued by the idea of brewing a chocolate stout then dumping about five or six lbs of raspberries into the beer and inoculating it with Brett.

On the other side of the coin, I've also considered making a stout and also a lambic and mixing the two at the time of bottling; however, I am concerned that the yeast from the higher gravity lambic will start munching on any residuals l. Is this a valid concern?

Either way, I have about six months to test and create this concoction and I'm a greenhorn with lambics. Can anyone give some guidance as to the yeast I should use? I'd like to get some notes of vanilla in there.

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Since a Black and Red is a layered beer drink akin to Black and Tan, you might be better off just making 2 separate beers and pouring at serving time so the stout will float.

Six months won't really give you enough time to make a proper fruit lambic, but perhaps you could make a quicker sour beer. A simple pils/wheat grist with Jolly Pumpkin dregs or a raspberry berliner weisse might fit the bill.

You don't want to ferment separately and then combine at bottling. With the Brett, etc, its a recipe for bottle bombs as they start munching on the resudual stout sugars.

I'd also like to say that I had a stout that got infected by a previous batch of lambic. I drank it all, but soured stout is not delicious.

If you want to have it all In one bottle, I'd go with the first plan: brew a stout, add fruit, add Brett (but only Brett not a Brett + lambic mixture).

Beernik said:

I drank it all, but soured stout is not delicious.

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False. Madrugad Obsucura, Zwet.be, Belgian Yeti. All delicious. To me. For you soured stout might not be delicious, but don't blanket statement that. Because MO is one of the best beers I have ever had.

I've not tried those beers but most the the descriptions I read on them range from "mildly tart" to "tart". What the OP will get will be more like a lambic gueuze in stout form. It will be dry, cidery, sour, and acidic. "Tart" would be an understatement.

I'm assuming the Framboise used in the OP's friend's Black & Red is Lindmanns. Lindmanns is pasteurized, back sweetened, and then force carbed. It's a beer that is difficult for a homebrewer to recreate. And it's not as sour as it would be if it wasn't back sweetened.

Another alternative that would let the OP do it all in one bottle would be a sour mash instead of using Lacto and Pedio. A sour mash will give you some sour but would not make it dry or cidery. Still use some straight Brett for the funk.

suprchunk said:

False. Madrugad Obsucura, Zwet.be, Belgian Yeti. All delicious. To me. For you soured stout might not be delicious, but don't blanket statement that. Because MO is one of the best beers I have ever had.

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Belgian yeti isn't sour