Removing hops during boil

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Wakadaka

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Anybody ever tried it? Theories on what it would do? I imagine it would drive off the aroma, but what about the flavor?

Basically saying add hops to a hop bag at say 60 minutes, then remove them at 45, or any other combination.

Just an idea, not planning on trying it anytime soon because my methods aren't that honed in, and I have a lot of experimentation I am curious about before then.

Any input?
 
Any amount of hops that are in a boil for 60 minutes, or are taken out but the oils are still in solution boiling for 60 minutes, will not leave a lot of aroma or flavor. You are correct, they will be boiled off.

That is why hops are added at 45 mintes (in a 60 min boil) and later, to preserve more aroma and flavor.

Um, I guess I shold have got clarification. Is 'your clock' counting down? Do you mean have the hops in for the first 15 minutes of a boil then removed for the last 45 mintues of boil? I just count the other way, when I hit boil I start the clock counting up.
 
that would really just waste the hops strength. you'd be boiling the hops for 15 minutes, getting some of the oil out of them, then throwing out the rest of the oil, and burn off most of what you added. everything from hops is the oil.
 
So would removing a 60 minute addition at ~30 minutes not affect the bittering at all assuming that the oils are already in the wort?
 
why remove the hops? leave them in; otherwise you won't extract all the oils out of them you can. you'll also be digging around in boiling wort while steaming the he;; out of your hand and arm
 
Wakadaka said:
So would removing a 60 minute addition at ~30 minutes not affect the bittering at all assuming that the oils are already in the wort?
Click to expand...

it would affect bittering. There is a point you reach where you no longer effectively extract bittering, but I don't think 30 minutes is it.

Looking at beersmith with a sample beer for a general example: 1 ounce of (chinook) hops provide 21.8 IBU at 15mintues, 33.7 at 30 minutes, 40.3 at 45 minutes, and 43.9 at 60 minutes.

So you see while half of the IBUs come in the first 15 minutes, there is still significant ibu additions up until 45 minutes, even 60. But going another 15 minutes only adds 1.9 more IBU.

As far as cost effectiveness goes, if you wanted 30 IBUs, I would not use 1 ounce for 30 minutes, but rather a half ounce for an hour.


Any of this make sense? I'm tired and medicated.
 
Yea I know what your saying, just hadn't really pieced it together with my question until you posted it.

I had just recently learned about first wort hopping, and I was just kinda thinking about other ways to use hops in addition to the traditional way.

And I thought of this idea when reading the thread going around about using hop bags.

So I guess what happens is the oils get extracted from the hops, and the hops either lead to bitterness if boiled for a long time, or they retain some of their flavor if boiled for a short time? Or is it some other property of the hops that gives the hop flavor to a brew?
 
Well, I apologoze for not being accurate initially. Yess, there is another property of hops.
Since we are getting more technical - we are talking 2 different processes. The oils only cause aroma and flavor. Bitterness comes from soft resins on hops. The boiling causes a chemical change in the resins to create bitterness. More boil, more bitter. Hops are immediately aromatic and flavorful. But since these characteristics come from the oils, they diminish as they are volatile and the boil breaks them down. Less boil, more aroma.


This is why dry hopping is popular. You can toss in a bunch of hops and since there is no boil, the bitterness is not extracted and the aroma and flavor is. (though it takes a little longer since the wort is colder).
 
in other words, about an hour for bitterness, 20-30 minutes for flavor, but little bitterness or aroma, and 0-15 minutes for aroma. dry-hopping (a favorite of mine, since i love hops), adds flavor and aroma, since you give it days to soak
 
Wig said:
Well, I apologoze for not being accurate initially. Yess, there is another property of hops.
Since we are getting more technical - we are talking 2 different processes. The oils only cause aroma and flavor. Bitterness comes from soft resins on hops. The boiling causes a chemical change in the resins to create bitterness. More boil, more bitter. Hops are immediately aromatic and flavorful. But since these characteristics come from the oils, they diminish as they are volatile and the boil breaks them down. Less boil, more aroma.


This is why dry hopping is popular. You can toss in a bunch of hops and since there is no boil, the bitterness is not extracted and the aroma and flavor is. (though it takes a little longer since the wort is colder).
Click to expand...


thanks, thats exactly what I was looking for.

Sorry for incessant questioning, and this is only for the sake of more brew knowledge, so if you don't feel like commenting don't worry about it.

But, since the oils are what cause the flavor and the resins cause the bitterness, and if my understanding is correct the resins only can cause the bitterness when boiled, could you reuse dry hops as a bittering hop?
 
The only hops I remove prior to the end of the boil are mash hops (which obviously never make it out of the mash) and first wort hops if I want to get bitterness from another hop.
 
There are a number of web sites and lots of written material on the effective use of hops in boil. You might want to look at those. Basicly I would say that hops can be used for aroma between 0 and 20 minutes in the boil with the maximum efficency at about 7 minutes. Hopps can be used for flavor between 5 and 40 minutes in the boil with the maximum efficency at about 20minutes. Hops can be used for bittering between 5 and 90 minutes in the boil with maximum efficency at about 70 minutes. Both the flavor and aroma effect will be lost over time as you continue to boil beyond the maximum efficency. That is not true with the bittering hop or at least not upto 90 minutes as far as I know.
As far as reusing dry hops it is an interesting idea. You would not have to worry aout infection. I will be watching what other folks have to say.
 
badhabit said:
There are a number of web sites and lots of written material on the effective use of hops in boil. You might want to look at those. Basicly I would say that hops can be used for aroma between 0 and 20 minutes in the boil with the maximum efficency at about 7 minutes. Hopps can be used for flavor between 5 and 40 minutes in the boil with the maximum efficency at about 20minutes. Hops can be used for bittering between 5 and 90 minutes in the boil with maximum efficency at about 70 minutes. Both the flavor and aroma effect will be lost over time as you continue to boil beyond the maximum efficency. That is not true with the bittering hop or at least not upto 90 minutes as far as I know.
As far as reusing dry hops it is an interesting idea. You would not have to worry aout infection. I will be watching what other folks have to say.
Click to expand...

I am familiar with traditional uses of hops in the boil, and how to achieve what you want from your hops, but I didn't understand why those things happened.

But any input on the reusing dry hops as a bittering hop question? seems like an interesting idea since they are 2 different hop properties responsible for flavor/aroma and bittering
 
The question as far as reusing dry hops for bittering goes is whether or not alpha acids dissolve into the wort during dry hopping. Of course they won't be isomerized and therefore add no bitterness... but if they do dissolve, then there is a smaller amount available to be isomerized when those same hops are added to the boil.
 
Good point Arcane.

Reusing dry hops as a bittering hop is an interesting proposal, but I agree along with what Arcane implied. The resins probably dissolve to some degree and would not be entirely effective at bittering when reused.

But it sounds like an experiment waiting to happen.


And the questions are fine Waka, we have all been there. And this one is interesting. It has actually been asked before, but I am still looking for results opposed to people talking about reusing them.
 
Here is a thread that talks about it way back in `08. There is a taste test, but it was inconclusive. Beer was not as bitter, but it may have been attributed to the first wort hopping which mellows bitterness.

This thread has someone mention they did it successfully, though does not come back to the thread to provide details.
 
Wig said:
Here is a thread that talks about it way back in `08. There is a taste test, but it was inconclusive. Beer was not as bitter, but it may have been attributed to the first wort hopping which mellows bitterness.

This thread has someone mention they did it successfully, though does not come back to the thread to provide details.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I wonder how those beers ended up. I have a few lbs of hops right now, but if you could reuse hops and yeast, the only thing you would be buying for a batch new would be grains.
 

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