Equiptment Rental

Just wondering if anyone knows the legality of renting out your equipment to people who want to brew their own beer? And maybe hanging around and helping them use your brewing equipment? Im looking for a very legal way (no gray areas) to make a little extra money off my hobby and to help offset the enormous amount of money I have invested in this hobby already. I mean say you offered to come to someone's house and deliver the equipment and set them up with the ingredients to brew what they wanted to and rent them the equipment to do it, leave the beer at their house and let it ferment there than maybe return to assist them in bottling, or just leave the stuff for them to bottle the brew there with instructions and than return to pick up the stuff at a later date. Is this illegal? Is doing this in some sort of a gray area? Im also doing so wouldnt be cutting into my alotment of homebrew im allowed to brew (400Gal/yr) since im not technically the one brewing it

edit: couldnt find any threads concerning this after an exhaustive search for it, surely im not the first person to have contemplated this?

I think the only gray area I think you would want/have to cover if you want to stay on the up and up is claiming your income for tax purposes. If you are going to do this you may also be able to deduct some or all of your equipment. If you get serious about it you may want to create an LLC or S-corp for business liability reasons. I don't believe there are any other legal implications but then again I'm not a lawyer or accountant.....although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'd check with your legal council and CPA just to be sure.

If your thoughts are just to charge your buddies to use your gear I would probably just forget all of this. If you are working with complete strangers you might want to consider some of them.....

Jason

No I'm definately thinking strangers, all my friends already brew, at least the ones who count do, so no legal implications of getting paid to rent out brewing equiptment and what could be seen as renting out my time to assist those in the process?

Jason I'm a little confused by the last two sentences/paragraph of your post. Care to clarify that a bit? Thanks again for your response though!

I'm actually in need of renting a very large pot... I left mine at school

So assuming that you can work out the legal stuff, you may have something to go on

i'd stay away from that. contact the irs, if you're that serious

Why the irs?

A lot of people think about this kind of a setup with car repair. You supply the hoist, air, basic tools, they pay for access. The biggest issue is always liability. The chance of an accident is obviously much smaller with homebrewing, but it only takes 1 accident to wipe out all your future profit.

Civil Liability, it shapes the world we live in, in every way.

yah i mean i agree thats understandable. im just wondering what the legal issues are that i need to look into if any, i mean in this instance your not selling alcohol but your selling the means i guess to acquire it, im sure someone in our government would be interested, and really im wondering if it would be a worthwhile venture to earn a little extra pocket change along with getting to make use of stuff i have lying around and perhaps get others involved in such a great hobby. anyone else have any insight into this?

I guess what I was saying is that there is probably less of a chance of a liability suit if you were renting the gear out to your buddies.

Bottom line.....I would be more worried about the IRS and liability suits than I would be worried about BATF. You are helping them make unfermented wort. As long as they pitch it you aren't doing anything as far as making alcohol. I believe this is how clubs handle group brews. As far fetched as it may sound here is an example. You take your gear over to a someones house and something explodes or otherwise damages their property. What do you think is going to happen? Unfortunately we live in a world where you are going to get sued. If you create a LLC you can shelter your personal assets.

Talk to a lawyer if you are serious about turning your investment into a cash cow. If you are going to rent it out to close friends then just roll the dice.

Jason

Depending on how your state laws are written you may be illegally engaged in commercial brewing or otherwise violating the alcohol laws of your state. You need to talk to a lawyer that is able to research and provide you an accurate evaluation of those laws.

yah i guess that is the next step as i feel there is a real market for this sort of thing, i actually have a buddy who works for the DA maybe i should run it by him and see what he can tell me about the legality of everything im trying to do?

When I was doing the research for opening an distillery, I called the LCB for Texas, and they were able to answer all questions concerning legality and what forms/permits I would need to conduct any part of alcohol production (beer, wine, whiskey). As far as an Attorney, you need to do as much research on s corporations, LLC's if that's applicable, and any other arrangements that fit your managing structure. That way, when you talk with an Attorney, you'll have some basic questions they can use to guide you. Luck, and let us know what you do. - Dwain

You would need a business license from your town/county/state. And being that you are supplying equipment and ingredients for a food substance, you would probably need a health certificate too similar to a catering company. And that is just for any business, you then have to figure out the alcohol laws.

Renting your equipment is one thing (my LHBS rents lots of stuff out).

Actually being there and doing ANYTHING, while being "paid" -- your are being paid for alcohol. There's no "grey area" at all. Anything you do is production of alcohol and subject to all the laws of your locality, state, and of course, feds.

No matter how "slick" you think you are, this topic comes up a lot around here. Lots of armchair lawyers try and think of ways to sneak around the laws. Go ahead and try, but when the feds come looking for you...don't say you weren't warned.

Unless you're paying a lawyer for TRUE legal advice, don't take any advice on this forum regarding the legality of what you're trying to do. Including mine.

How do you get to brew 400 gallons per year? The (federal) law says 100 gallons per person per year up to 200 gallons per household per year. If you have already read this law wrong, you better get an attorney before going into any business.

sorry mistype meant 200 don't know where my head was. Im definitely not trying to get around any gray areas at all just wondering about if I could rent my stuff out to people who wanted to brew their own beer, and if sticking around assisting them in using the equipment i was renting out to them would be a problem. im guessing from the responses here its not something i really want to get into, it most certainly would not be a primary source of income for me just something to do in my spare time, i tend to have a bunch of it, with my equipment to get better utilization of my hobby investment. thanks for all the responses im going to still make a call to my buddy who works with the district attorney but i can see its going to be more hassle than im willing to put up with when im not doing it for the money at all.

Yeah, it sounds like a good idea and would be fun, but...

It sound like an interesting idea.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned "brew on site" operations in this thread yet. From what I understand with a "brew on site" the customer selects their style of beer and gets ingredients, help and equipment to brew it and then either takes it away or lets it ferment and comes back to bottle. Your idea sounds pretty similar to this but instead of them coming to you you go to them.
Again I'm not a lawyer and check with a lawyer about anything before you get serious but I would research how brew on site businesses operate along with their licenses, permits, laws etc. both federally and in your state.

No I don't think it's legal. At least not with out a federal permit. If you really want to keep it legal, I'd contact the TTB and ask them.

This is similar to brew on premises and I don't think it's legal without a fixed location. For example you could get a permit to open a business where people come to your store and use your equipment to make beer. You can't go to them. Making money on the act of brewing in people homes is generally illegal. Making money on the act of brewing at a licensed brewery is OK. So you'd need to open a store. And it can't be in your house. To meet the federal guidelines it may be in a shed in your yard. However, local zoning may require a commercial building. But the first step is to contact the TTB and find out what's possible under federal law.

thanks for all the help guys its definately not looking like something im wanting to get into, i guess im one of the odd brewers out there who never dreams of opening their own brew pub, just satisfied with brewing good beer with good people in a relaxed environment, wouldnt want to turn my hobby into a job, i already love my job so got that covered. thank for all the responses and the tips, all the help and support is one of the main things i love about this hobby next to all the beer i get to enjoy which i crafted myself! thanks again to all who participated.