This is my second time with the beer... second time with this yeast first time with a starter with the beer/yeast. I have multiple flawless batches under my belt and temperature control is maintained through out the whole process since I have a fermentation chamber. I brewed this beer 3/6/11 and OG was 1.054. This is a clone of Firestone Double Barrel Ale (brewmaster's recipe). It is a extract with specialty grains recipe. The last time I brewed this beer I didn't have a way to control fermentation temps and it was so bitter and banana is that it was undrinkable. I have kept this beer fermenting at 62'f for 6 days. Today I took a sample to get the SG and it was 1.019. Not yet finished but I just wanted to see how it is going. Upon pouring my sample into a glass to enjoy I get a banana ester smell and was like "oh no not again!!". I took a drink and while it tasted 1,000,000 times better than the last batch I still get banana flavors. What is the cause of this? Is this because of the yeast? I have switched to dry yeast entirely because of this very beer last time and have ZERO esters... now I'm back to the same beer and yeast and am experiencing esters again. Ideas?
White Labs WLP005
- Thread starter jvcjbl
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EdWort
Well-Known Member
I let my beers go for 10 to 14 days before kegging. The yeast still have plenty to do to clean up after themselves, to be patient with this batch and I bet it turns out great. Give it two weeks on the yeast before racking or kegging.
I know for sure the last batch was because of high temps and stressed yeast with no starter aid. This time I am like WTH why is there banana again. I usually go ~12 days in primary ~12 days in secondary and my beers are epicly clear and good.
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
Like Ed says, skip the secondary, let your beer sit on the cake for a week or two, it makes a huge difference in the final product, I usually let my beers primary for a minimum of 3 weeks, more often 4-5 weeks before racking to the keg, then it is an additonal 2 weeks before I tap.
The recipe was written for racking into secondary because of dry hopping and dry oaking. They even specify racking days and temps. Crazy detailed recipe.... I am not passing off what you guys are saying, but I just think it is this yeast. For next time... is there a dry substitute? US-04?
here is the specs on the beer for a suggestion input.
Firestone Double Barrel Ale
MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
I just ran through a series of beers with 005. I fermented at a controlled 68 and ramped to 70 over a week and didn't get any banana ester. Maybe 62 is too cold? You are going to get some esters with any of the english yeasts.
While that is great advice, I don't think that it would be the reason for any esters to be created. They would have been created in the first 24-48 hours.
How did you oxygenate?
While that is great advice, I don't think that it would be the reason for any esters to be created. They would have been created in the first 24-48 hours.
How did you oxygenate?
Now that you say that, the beer was put into the fermenter at ~77'f and yeast was pitched around ~73'f. It took my fermentation chamber about 24 hours to get the beer down to 66'f (just used frozen 2L soda bottles as the cooling source) not it is right at 62'f. I think this initial temp caused this. I am hoping that is masked by the dry hops and dry oaking. As this is my favorite beer in the world and tastes nothing like it so far... LOL
I used WLP005 6 times last year and never did taste banana. But all my ferments were 65F or less.
strat_thru_marshall
Well-Known Member
the high initial temp is the likely culprit. I have used 005 @65F and it gave no banana at all.
^^^^ mine is 62'f liquid temp as are all my brews. Either this is the brew with the oak and combination of yeast or the fact it is lower 70's at first for <24hours has a factor. How do you circumvent this initial temp spike since it is "pitching temp" and you are them placing in fermenter to chill to ferm temps? I hope this turns out good. I need a good go to beer since all I drink is 9% + beers.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Are you drunk? I can barely interpret your post. Pitching at 73 F is very likely the culprit in producing the banana esters. Next time, chill the beer to ferment temps before pitching the yeast.
strat_thru_marshall
Well-Known Member
Chill the wort to 62 F before you pitch.
The majority of off flavors and esters are formed during the first 24 hours...if you pitch into 72+ degree wort you're 100% for sure going to have esters and off flavors, even if you chill it down within 24-36 hours.
I always try to pitch cooler than my fermentation temps, and let the beer ramp up. For instance, I'd pitch at 62F, and let it ramp up to fermentation temp of 65F and hold it there. I get really clean ferments this way.
strat_thru_marshall
Well-Known Member
I think that he must be following some ancient instructions that are telling him that you have to pitch above 70F.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
I think that he must be following some ancient instructions that are telling him that you have to pitch above 70F.
From White Labs FAQ.
It's pretty much what I do. I pitch after the buckets are in the fermenteezer and the temp sensor is taped to one bucket and set to 67 degrees.
My wort drops to 67 withing a few hours, but does not shock my starter or in the case of dry yeast, has a chance to get going before being chilled to fermenting temps.
HAHHA not drunk yet. Was trying to talk to my grand parents and walk them trough getting their satellite back up and running. What a damn stressful situation. Pitching in the 70's is something I always do and have NEVER had a problem. I wish I would have known this.
MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
A better way to do it is like strat said. Cool to pitching temps before inoculation. The instructions from white labs are very generic instructions. Heck, when I do lagers, I chill to 65-70 with my chiller and leave it in the kettle overnight in my ferm fridge to get down to 44F before running out and pitching. Try brewing it again and cool to 62-65 and then pitch and see what kind of esters you get.
I will definitely try this next time... hell I may start doing this with all my brews.
