Partigyle: Two Separate Brewings - Three Different Beers

First off...this forum and you guys are awesome. Thanks.

This Saturday, I plan to do two completely separate all-grain, 6 gallon brews. It'll be a long day...but worth it.

I will do a Rye IPA first and I plan to take the grain from this one immediately after mashing and dump it into a tub. I will complete this brew through boiling and pitching. Then, I plan to do my standard IPA with a completely separate grain bill. After it's done, I plan to dump the grain into the same tub I dumped the first one into. I plan on mixing the two grain bills together, then adding them back into my mash tun and sparging in what some would call a partigyle. I am pitching with three unique yeast strains for each beer. This process should give me two of my favorite beers and also, a lighter, lower alcohol blend of the initial two brews. The end result should give me three completely unique brews and approximately 18 gallons.

Can you guys see any problems with the process I outline above? Please help me to shoot holes into this process so I can perfect it.

Thanks much and happy brewing!

WortDog

Sounds pretty interesting, and a good experiment! The only thing that jumps out at me is the details on your 3rd batch.

If you've already mashed and sparged those grains, what are your expectations for an OG if you pull another 6 gallons from them? I've never done this, but I would think you're going to be extremely low on fermentables since all those grains would have been rinsed.

I know people have done this, so someone else should be able to give more insight from their experiences, but I was under the impression that when you do something like this your last batch is usually much smaller in volume. But then again you're pulling from 2 batches of grains, so maybe you'll be OK. Perfect...I talked myself in a circle.

Sounds cool though, I'd be interested to hear how it goes. Good luck.

Are you doing the first two as first runnings only, and then using the sparge step from both batches as they wort for the 3rd? I think that's the true meaning of partigyle, if I understand it correctly, is to make one beer with the first runnings, and then a separate beer from the second runnings/sparge... Obviously you'll need more grain and higher mash volumes to do this. If you're going to have 2 batches of grain that have already been sparged once, I also would be concerned that you might not get much gravity out of them, even if it is 2 batches worth. Another potential issue in this case is that if you're draining very low gravity rinse, you can start extracting more tannins...that whole thing of stopping the runnings when they get to 1.010...

Just one other thing that popped into my head is that you could always have a little light or extra light DME on hand to supplement the gravity of the 3rd brew if you were too low in fermentables...

That's right, I remember now that every time I've read about it the process has been to take only first runnings then mix the sparges as the partigyle beer. I knew I was missing something when I first thought about it...shouldn't have replied until I had some coffee!

Thanks guys.

My RIPA grain bill is 19 lbs - the other, is 17.25 lbs, so they are pretty big. My anticipated OG on the RIPA is 1.085 and the other IPA should come in at around 1.078. I plan to first run them only and extract the leftover sugars (and wort) from both grain bills to complete the 3rd batch.

I just did a different version of the partigyle when making my Mikkeller Beer Geek Breakfast clone week before last...and it seems to have worked although, the OG was pretty low, but I was looking for a lighter version on that run anyway. On that one, my second run was at 1.054 (first run was 1.090) and it seems to have fermented nicely. I tend to think that the partigyle process might work better for an IPA than a coffee stout...

My thought on this is that by using the two grain bills together for the last batch, I will get that much more of the leftover sugars rinsed for a fermentable, lighter IPA. Additionally, I have some Citra and some Simcoe so I can bring the aroma up if necessary to make it more drinkable.

WD

If I were doing that I would collect the first runnings from the first batch in one container, then sparge and collect the sparge runnings in a separate container. Ditto for the second batch, but the final step would be to combine the sparge runnings from the first grain bill with the sparge runnings from the second. It seems foolish to dump the grain in a tub, and then try to reuse that grain. Just sparge while the grain is in the tun the first time.

Good idea!! Thanks!

WD

biochemedic said:

Are you doing the first two as first runnings only, and then using the sparge step from both batches as they wort for the 3rd? I think that's the true meaning of partigyle, if I understand it correctly, is to make one beer with the first runnings, and then a separate beer from the second runnings/sparge...

Click to expand...

That isn't the way any commercial brewery has partigyled since the 18th century. The usual way to partigyle - the way Fullers do - is to get one wort from the mash and one from the sparge. These are boiled separately and then post-boil the two worts are mixed in varying combinations to produce Chiswick, London Pride, ESB and Golden Pride.

Thanks for all of your replies.

This is what I did...

I brewed the RIPA first, drew off 7 gallons and then sparged an additional 4 gallons into a separate kettle. Then, I brewed my 20-Day IPA, again, drew off 7 gallons and sparged an additional 3 gallons that I added to the second kettle sparge of 4 gallons. I boiled the main wort(s) individually (so at a minimum, I have two great beers) and when they were done, I boiled the partigyle runnings. So far, the partigyle has been promising with a decent krausen and an active fermentation. Only time (and taste) will tell if it will work. I have found - through a disastrous first attempt - that you have to cut your hop additions in half for the partigyle as the lower malt profile
just can't support the same same hop quantities.

I'll keep you guys updated...

WD

patto1ro said:

That isn't the way any commercial brewery has partigyled since the 18th century. The usual way to partigyle - the way Fullers do - is to get one wort from the mash and one from the sparge. These are boiled separately and then post-boil the two worts are mixed in varying combinations to produce Chiswick, London Pride, ESB and Golden Pride.

Click to expand...

I think the terms are equivalent, and we're saying the same thing (aside from the part about blending worts after the boil)
mash = first runnings, sparge = second runnings

regardless, there's plenty of things that homebrewers do differently from commercial brewers...

WortDog said:

Thanks for all of your replies.

This is what I did...

I brewed the RIPA first, drew off 7 gallons and then sparged an additional 4 gallons into a separate kettle. Then, I brewed my 20-Day IPA, again, drew off 7 gallons and sparged an additional 3 gallons that I added to the second kettle sparge of 4 gallons. I boiled the main wort(s) individually (so at a minimum, I have two great beers) and when they were done, I boiled the partigyle runnings. So far, the partigyle has been promising with a decent krausen and an active fermentation. Only time (and taste) will tell if it will work. I have found - through a disastrous first attempt - that you have to cut your hop additions in half for the partigyle as the lower malt profile
just can't support the same same hop quantities.

I'll keep you guys updated...

WD

Click to expand...

You did it right.... With the party-gyle batch for the ibu's you can dummy a recipe with the pre boil volume and SG to get to the right bitterness for what you want. it works... Try it next time!!

**Update**

After decent fermentation, some here-and-there-tweaking and a fair amount of finger-crossing, upon taking a few gravity readings and, more importantly, taste tests, the partigyle batches lacked any real body or good-enough-to-keep flavor. So, I dumped both 6-gallon partigyle batches as they just didn't come close standing up to what I have been producing.

Thanks again for all of your replies on this topic!

Yours truly,

Quality Control