Stainless versus Enamel

Im a relatively new brewer (2 batches) and ive read that one of the best things you can do to improve your brew is use a pot which can hold the entire 5 gal batch. i now use a 5 gal stainless pot for 3 gal of wort. I say a 33qt enamel pot for $30. IS enamel a good material? I know aluminum is pretty controverrsial. What are the pros nd cons of enamel and stainless steel?

Enamel is fine until it gets chipped, then you have rusting problems.

SpecialEd said:

Im a relatively new brewer (2 batches) and ive read that one of the best things you can do to improve your brew is use a pot which can hold the entire 5 gal batch. i now use a 5 gal stainless pot for 3 gal of wort. I say a 33qt enamel pot for $30. IS enamel a good material? I know aluminum is pretty controverrsial. What are the pros nd cons of enamel and stainless steel?

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Just save a little and get yourself a 10 gallon stainless steel for 80 bucks.
http://www.instawares.com/NSF-Stainless-Steel-Stock-Pot-with-Lid-40-qt.RII-ROYSSRSPT40.0.7.htm

Or just go to Sam's Club and buy one of these.
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=126459
At $39.81 you really can't beat the deal.

SpecialEd said:

Im a relatively new brewer (2 batches) and ive read that one of the best things you can do to improve your brew is use a pot which can hold the entire 5 gal batch. i now use a 5 gal stainless pot for 3 gal of wort. I say a 33qt enamel pot for $30. IS enamel a good material? I know aluminum is pretty controverrsial. What are the pros nd cons of enamel and stainless steel?

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Hmm.... I don't think I would agree that this is the best thing you can do to improve your beer. Hmm... let me rephrase.... it could improve (not the best... but could improve). Why do I say this... well... if you attempt to do a full boil and for example, do not have a wort chiller. Then there is a fair amount of chance that your beer will actualy decline in taste, not improve (cooling 5 gals in a sink is pretty hard to do). If you do a full 5 gal boil and use the same amount of hops as your 3... you will get a big surprise too (and you probably wont be happy (or should I say "hoppy"?)). Are you brewing in your kitchen? Generally the thought is that it is hard to get a boil of 5 gallons of wort on the kitchen stove.

How are you brewing now? You want to know the best thing you can do? For someone who is just using DME or LME for instance.. the best thing you can do dollar for dollar is steep grain. There is absolutly no doubt in you noticing an incredible improvement in your beer if you steep grain when you have not. How about yeast? Are you using one of the liquid styles that matches the style of beer you are making? You'll notice a big difference here too. Some say if your using LME, you will notice a difference by changing to DME (can't commend on this one). Others say using whole hops will improve things.

So... it's rather a long winded answer of maybe, but there could be other things that would improve your beer that could be a bit more easier for you to do then full boils.

On the commend on the use of your kitchen, don't let that stop you if you want to do full boils in your kitchen. I started doing AG in my kitchen and use two pots

Well I do use a wort chiller, use LME, and steep specialty grains. I use white labs' yeast picked for the kit by the LHBS. I brew outside on a propane cooker, 170000btu.
I wasnt going to get a bigger pot until I was going to go for all grain, that way I could really spend the money and get something nice and big with a built in thermometer and spigot...but that is a ways down the road.
The reason I thought about getting the new pot is it is only $30 and my batches so far havent even dissolved all of the LME. Both have had lower starting gravities (1.04) so I would imagine if I tried to do anything higher it definitely wouldent dissolve.
Im mostly concerned that there would be a major drawback to enamel that I dont know about, such as how some believe aluminum conributes to alzheimers.

david_42 said:

Enamel is fine until it gets chipped, then you have rusting problems.

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I agree with david_42.

SpecialEd said:

Well I do use a wort chiller, use LME, and steep specialty grains. I use white labs' yeast picked for the kit by the LHBS. I brew outside on a propane cooker, 170000btu.
I wasnt going to get a bigger pot until I was going to go for all grain, that way I could really spend the money and get something nice and big with a built in thermometer and spigot...but that is a ways down the road.
The reason I thought about getting the new pot is it is only $30 and my batches so far havent even dissolved all of the LME. Both have had lower starting gravities (1.04) so I would imagine if I tried to do anything higher it definitely wouldent dissolve.
Im mostly concerned that there would be a major drawback to enamel that I dont know about, such as how some believe aluminum conributes to alzheimers.

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Sounds like your doing pretty well so far I use both LME and DME. I stir a lot, so I can't say I have any problems with them dissolving and have cerntainly been higher then 04. When I did extract/steep I started with like 2 1/2 - 3 gallons. If I'm using LME I'll swish some of the hot water in the can to get it all out. Lately in my batches I have been playing around with AG. Incidently, my second pot is an enamel canning pot right now (remember I use two pots in my kitchen ). Going to get another 5 gal, but did not have the money last time so I used it. You just have to make sure its not chiped. Do you have a Wallmart near you? I saw that they had some SS pots for like $35 in the 32-34 quart range. The aluminum thing was shot down. Palmer even says using aluminum is good, the only thing to be concerned about is what you clean it with as different things will corrode it. From the latest news of the Surgeon General you have bigger concerns with second hand smoke

the only thing controversial about aluminum is the urban legend status this myth has received on the Internet. treated properly, aluminum kettles will serve you well.

Im mostly concerned that there would be a major drawback to enamel that I dont know about, such as how some believe aluminum contributes to alzheimer's.

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people used to believe the earth was the center of the universe.

if you're worried about aluminum never:

go out to eat at a restaurant
never take an antacid tablet
never use under arm deodorant
in fact stop breathing as aluminum can be xmitted via air due to natural erosion

To do full boils you need one at least 8 gallons and a 10 gallon pot is all the better. I fill my 8 gallon one almost to the top in order to have 5.5 gallons at the end.

lol ok well in response to the "people used to think the earth was the center of the universe", people also used to handle mercury with bare hands, drink radium to cure nearly any ailment, and use asbestos based powders... so at least for me better safe.
So it sounds like an enamel pot isnt bad a long as I dont chip off the enamel coating. Thanks all.

brewhead said:

the only thing controversial about aluminum is the urban legend status this myth has received on the Internet. treated properly, aluminum kettles will serve you well.



people used to believe the earth was the center of the universe.

if you're worried about aluminum never:

go out to eat at a restaurant
never take an antacid tablet
never use under arm deodorant
in fact stop breathing as aluminum can be xmitted via air due to natural erosion

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I read on the Internet (everything published on the Internet is accurate and true otherwise Al Gore wouldn't have invented it) that the eveil effects of aluminum can be counteracted by waving a baggie full of voodoo fossil chicken bones at the pot. These bones are available on eBay, so that confirms that it's true.

Mikey said:

I read on the Internet (everything published on the Internet is accurate and true otherwise Al Gore wouldn't have invented it) that the eveil effects of aluminum can be counteracted by waving a baggie full of voodoo fossil chicken bones at the pot. These bones are available on eBay, so that confirms that it's true.

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I have to apologise. It turns out that it isn't aluminum that causes problems, it's buying stuff on eBay. I got an email on the subject, with a note that it's pending official approval from Al Gore and Bill Gates.

Sorry.

One badly done study about 15 years ago linked Alzheimer's and aluminum. Turned out to be contamination in the lab. The rumors will be with us as long as the Internet exists.

Hemochromatosis is real and the only people who get it are those with a genetic defect and people who brew beer in iron pots.

Good to know. Im always sketchy about a study in the medical industry. "A recent study of 3 people showed a 67% corrrelation of getting rectal cancer by which side of the bed you sleep on. "
But at any rate does anyone else have opinions on enamel? Is it easy to chip?

If I remember correctly the problem with Aluminum was that with the acidic wort interacting with the aluminum you would end up with metalic tasting beer.

D*Bo - That can happen if you scrub the aluminum to bright metal and don't let the surface passivate for a couple days. Metallic flavors are much more likely to come from high iron levels in the water or poorly cleaned copper parts.

Enamel is easy to chip. I'd recommend a plastic spoon for stirring.

I was pretty sure it was only if you damaged the protective film that forms on the surface.


If there is a Bennny's near you check them out. I just picked up a couple of stainless pots really cheap. Might use them for mini mash, or just to steep my specialty grains while I bring the brew water up to temp for 10 gallon full boil batches.
10 qt and 18qt for under $20. They are pretty thin, but as long as they get the job done.

I used to use enamelled pots, and usually got at least 5 years use out of them. I switched to stainless steel only because it was getting too difficult to move an 8g pot filled with 7g hot wort.

If you do go for enamel, use plastic utensils, and never clean with anything stronger than a scotch brite nylon pad.

-a.

OK thanks all. If anyone needs a small stainless pot check out ShopKo. I got my 20qt there with a lid for like $14.

suit yourself, your money - i personally wouldn't waste mine on enamel.

here's a thought for you "careful" types. did you know that certain enamels and ceramics should never come in contact with acidic solutions?

there's something to research for ya.

brewhead said:

suit yourself, your money - i personally wouldn't waste mine on enamel.

here's a thought for you "careful" types. did you know that certain enamels and ceramics should never come in contact with acidic solutions?

there's something to research for ya.

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You do realize that what you have said goes against what Palmer suggests and even uses himself? Just figured you might want to research why he himself uses it.

Beer Snob said:

You do realize that what you have said goes against what Palmer suggests and even uses himself? Just figured you might want to research why he himself uses it.

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Palmer is not god and i place him on no pedestal above me. he is a guy just like me and you who wrote a very good guide...stress - GUIDE to making beer.

despite going against the almighty Palmer, i still wouldn't waste my money one enamel

I second brewhead. Why buy a pot that your going to have to replace in the long run. Do it right the first time, even if it means saving up for a little bit and getting stainless. Some enamel pots are expensive. goto walmart and pick you up that SS turkey fryer and burner. You probably dont need the burner, but 5 gallon SS pot with spigot is a good buy for $60. In short, go stainless

Well the idea is that I could get an 8 gallon enamel so I could do full 5 gallon boils in the meantime. I want to wait to get a stainless pot so that by the time I buy my last ever(hopefully) stainless pot I can get something really good, 15 gal, built in thermometer, spigot, mash false bottom, prob around $300.

Palmer is not a god????? I beg to differ!

OK, he's not, but he is a metallurgist and a homebrewer, I would think he'd come pretty dang close to being as close as you can be to an authority on the subject. Not that authorities are always right, but that is what he is.

God Emporer BillyBrew said:

Palmer is not a god????? I beg to differ!

OK, he's not, but he is a metallurgist and a homebrewer, I would think he'd come pretty dang close to being as close as you can be to an authority on the subject. Not that authorities are always right, but that is what he is.

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Is this a case of the God Emporer calling the God metallurgist?
...the BillyBrew calling the enamel pot?
...it was the the metallurgist in the conservatory with the enamel pot!

olllllo said:

Is this a case of the God Emporer calling the God metallurgist?
...the BillyBrew calling the enamel pot?
...it was the the metallurgist in the conservatory with the enamel pot!

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heh, heh....

Good God men.. I don't think anyone has suggested the obvious. Get a keggle! You already have a propane burner.. it'd be perfect.

Buy an old one from a friend or neighbor.. tell them you'll pay them the deposit fee. Or throw a party and keep the keg... you'll be out 10 or 20 bucks at most. You can also find them at the metal scrap yard or recycling center. Cut the top off using an angle grinder or pay a welder a few bucks to do it with a plasma torch. You don't have to have a valve in the bottom of it either.. you can just siphon right out of the thing untill you get time or money to install a no weld fitting or pay to have one welded in.

Since your so worried about aluminum (which you shouldn't be.. really.. I'd be more worried about the tooth fairy cutting my throat while I sleep) A keg is stainless!

Ceramic seems fine but it's a pain having something fragile around and when you chip it (and you will) you'll curse yourself for not doing it right the first time. Remember, any chips or cracks will cause a metallic off taste in your beer..

Lost said:

Get a keggle! You already have a propane burner.. it'd be perfect.

Buy an old one from a friend or neighbor.. tell them you'll pay them the deposit fee. Or throw a party and keep the keg... you'll be out 10 or 20 bucks at most.

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They tag and track kegs these days. There are legal consequences for not returning them, and YES... those legal aspects are enforced.

You have to obtain them legally (proper vendor or scrapyard).

edit: it appears that this tagging is not common all over the US (my mistake), but it looks like the vendors either pursue legal action if possible, OR... when you buy the keg of beer, they make you provide a credit card. If you don't return the keg within a certain time-frame, they charge your card $100.

-walker

OK, he's not, but he is a metallurgist and a homebrewer,

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when i took metallurgy in college i was pulling down a 3.8. i am an engineer and a homebrewer but not a god nor a metallurgist.

my point is this. when i was first starting out i bought quite a few things i wish someone has told me different on because i ended up just wasting money.

to answer the question: stainless vs enamel i would not choose enamel.

when i first started out i too was warned about aluminum. but as i reaserched the topic both on forums, books, and fda reports i have come to the conclusion that the aluminum urban legend is a bunch of bunk.

again it's your money and you can spend it any way you wish. i would say though that if you have even a remote desire to cultivate this hobby, buy smart.

I think I know the answer to my question (A:no, go for it)...

What do you think of using an Aluminum kettle for heating sparge water?
It seems all the debate centres around the wort acidity..

I can't see any problems...it would be cheap and easy for me (especially
if I have to convince the wife that we also need a $100.00 12 gallon "rice cooker"
kettle)


Thanks,

i would go for it

the thing you need to understand when dealing with aluminum is never use caustic chemicals such as bleach or starsan on them. use warm water and a very mild dish washing soap and a soft cloth or sponge. you want them clean you don't want them shinny.