Westbrook Gose Clone

Any one smarter then me find a westbrook gose clone recipe?

I have looked around, but with no luck at all.

Doing a sour mash Berliner Weisse and adding salt / coriander will get you close I imagine. Just google "sour mash Berliner" and you should easily find a solid recipe. However, Westbrook Gose has a little bit of funkiness that I don't think you will get from a sour mash. You could try to use a saison yeast to get some of this or add some brett after primary and let it age for 6 or so months.

A good friend of mine just did a sour mash Berliner with French Saidon yeast that turned out fantastic and actually reminded me a little of Westbrook Gose without salt. Good luck! Post results if you take a stab at it.

It's a bit blurry, but straight from the source.

View attachment 1428362920037.jpg

I wish I could read that.... its a horrible tease.

60% 2 row, 36% wheat malt, 3% acid malt.
Sour wort method.
Ctz hops at 60
Coriander and sea salt
Strike temp 170? Mash temp 150, mash ph 5.4 and wort ph 3.5
I think that's the best info I can give haha

Any idea on the sour wort method? I'll have to look at other brews for ideas on what it says.

From what I'm reading it says to sparge with cold liquor to attain kettle full temp 105-110*F. They add 1/100th of the grain bill uncrushed in steeping bag, purge kettle w/co2 and let sit 48-72 hours until desired ph is reached.

I was watching some youtube vids and this makes sense. Thanks for your help with all of this. Have you tried to make this?

No problem. No, just visited their brewery last year on vacation. Will definitely be going back again this year and stocking up on some Gose. I'll have to try to brew this after I upgrade my gear.

That's really surprising that they sour with grain. I would think a commercial brewery would use a pure pitch for consistency.

attempting this tomorrow. grew up omega's lacto blend and sour carboy'd two full 6.5gal carboys of wort, which i topped with water until the rubber stopper/airlock pushed liquid out.

some more info from the sheet:

1100lb 2row
660lb wheat malt (12 sacks)
55lb acid malt (one sack)

OG 12.5/9.5 (second number might be SG?)
35BBL target volume
85% efficiency

4lb coriander
2.5lb sea salt

Ddrrseio, how is it turning out? My boyfriend & I tried a simple gose recipe in May but didn't get enough tartness, so we're watching this thread for results. We love Westerbrook's!

dallaskokoro said:

My boyfriend & I tried a simple gose recipe in May but didn't get enough tartness...

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I brewed the "Dollars to Dölnitz Gose" from pg 21 of the March/April 2015 issue of Zymurgy which calls for adding 88% lactic acid to taste. It was dead simple to add acid gradually until I got to the tartness level I wanted. I've heard that lactic acid gives a one-dimensional acid character, but in a side-by-side tasting with the Anderson Valley gose, I couldn't tell a difference in the quality of the acidity.

paulegli said:

I brewed the "Dollars to Dölnitz Gose" from pg 21 of the March/April 2015 issue of Zymurgy which calls for adding 88% lactic acid to taste. It was dead simple to add acid gradually until I got to the tartness level I wanted. I've heard that lactic acid gives a one-dimensional acid character, but in a side-by-side tasting with the Anderson Valley gose, I couldn't tell a difference in the quality of the acidity.

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How do you think it turned out with the hefe yeast? Thinking about brewing a gose this weekend and debating between hefe, German ale or maybe a saison yeast.

Anyone know what Westbrook uses?

ja09 said:

How do you think it turned out with the hefe yeast? Thinking about brewing a gose this weekend and debating between hefe, German ale or maybe a saison yeast.

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I actually used the WLP029 German Ale/Kölsch yeast and fermented at 68F, if I recall correctly. The fermentation went from 1.049 down to 1.009 over about ten days and tasted mostly clean with a bit of citrus/lemon character. I served this batch at a local homebrew festival last month and got a ton of positive feedback. People were asking where they could buy a bottle, which is quite flattering...

I'm brewing the recipe again on Saturday. This time, instead of adding lactic acid, I'll be kettle souring with a lacto culture from GigaYeast. It will be interesting to see if there is any detectable difference between the bacterial and chemical souring methods.

paulegli said:

I'm brewing the recipe again on Saturday. This time, instead of adding lactic acid, I'll be kettle souring with a lacto culture from GigaYeast. It will be interesting to see if there is any detectable difference between the bacterial and chemical souring methods.

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I'd love to hear how it turns out. I'm brewing the Dollar to Döllnitz Gose today, pretty similar to the AHA recipe using Wyeast 3068. Going to over pitch and ferment low to hopefully minimize any strong hefe characteristics. Doing 88% lactic acid in the keg and going for a moderately sour refreshing beer. Read some things about metallic and medicinal flavors from adding lactic acid, did you get any of this?

Not sure about GigaYeast, but I had a funny experience trying to kettle sour with WLP677. Turns out that strain will ferment out the beer entirely. Turned out to be a 1.5 year project instead of 5 weeks and I haven't kettle soured since. Prob overdue to try again.

Thought I'd post the recipe I came up with after scaling down the numbers from the brew sheet posted. Not knowing what yeast Westbrook uses, I decided to use 3068. I'm hoping to brew this up soon. If you see anything that doesn't look right or have any suggestions let me know.

Recipe: Westbrook Gose
Brewer: Evan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Gose
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.72 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 5.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.20 oz Salt (Mash 5.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
6 lbs 6.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 60.7 %
3 lbs 13.2 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 36.4 %
4.9 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
0.10 oz Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) [15.50 %] - Hop 5 5.8 IBUs
0.35 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
1.0 pkg Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.1 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 164.4 F 150.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.70 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
To do a sour mash. Add 1 pound acid malt into the mash after mash is complete. Purge the kettle with co2 and and cover with plastic wrap to prevent unwanted guests. Test the ph of mash after 2-3 days. Shooting for a ph of 3.5. Once desired ph is reached, seperated grains from the wort and proceded with the boil.



Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks good going to try this with the brew boss system

paulegli said:

I'm brewing the recipe again on Saturday. This time, instead of adding lactic acid, I'll be kettle souring with a lacto culture from GigaYeast. It will be interesting to see if there is any detectable difference between the bacterial and chemical souring methods.

Click to expand...

Been wondering myself about dumping lactic vs souring with lacto. Seems like it's been about a month or so, I assume beer is ready or nearly done? Any difference noted? All the literature I can find has no mention of byproducts or other potential flavor compounds from lacto.

SanPancho said:

Been wondering myself about dumping lactic vs souring with lacto. Seems like it's been about a month or so, I assume beer is ready or nearly done? Any difference noted? All the literature I can find has no mention of byproducts or other potential flavor compounds from lacto.

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I haven't put the keg on tap yet, but I did fill a few bottles for a competition last week. I cracked open one of the extras last night for a taste. The predominant note in this beer is peaches -- it's very distinct and comes through strongly in the aroma and the flavor. There is a moderate sour bite and saltiness at the end. Compared to the previous batch, the bacterially-soured beer has less of a wheat character and isn't as perceptibly tart. I haven't measured the pH of the beer yet to see if the acidity is different than before. The peach character developed in the last week or so, which makes me think it came from the yeast rather than the bugs. With multiple organisms in the wort, though, it would be hard to pin that ester on just one component. I really like the way it turned out and will be using the GigaYeast lacto blend again the next time I make this recipe.

paulegli said:

I brewed the "Dollars to Dölnitz Gose" from pg 21 of the March/April 2015 issue of Zymurgy which calls for adding 88% lactic acid to taste. It was dead simple to add acid gradually until I got to the tartness level I wanted. I've heard that lactic acid gives a one-dimensional acid character, but in a side-by-side tasting with the Anderson Valley gose, I couldn't tell a difference in the quality of the acidity.

Click to expand...

This is good to hear! I've been wanting to brew something similar to Anderson Valley's gose (not sure if I want to add some blood oranges, or stick with something more conventional - since this is my first gose, I'll probably skip the fruit additions) for a while now, and I just got a hold of this magazine issue. I don't want to use actual lacto because I'm worried about infecting my siphon equipment, so I'm going to use their method of acidulated malt (holding some back at the start of the mash as to not affect the pH of the mash too greatly), and adding lactic acid when bottling.

Some tweaks I was thinking about, I'd like to get your thoughts on them since you've brewed the BYO recipe:

• Grain Bill - I'm thinking about going to something like 6# pilsner/4# wheat/.75# acidulated
• Hops - Subbing Hallertauer for Saaz
• Yeast - Using Wyeast 1007 German Ale instead of a hefeweizen 3068/3333 the article recommends
• Adding salt at the end of the boil instead of bottling. Downside is, I can't taste and adjust.
• Upping the salt and coriander amounts to .75oz and .5oz, respectively

Subscribed!

Subbed. How'd it turn out @Hawgwild81?

Baja_Brewer said:

Subbed. How'd it turn out @Hawgwild81?

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Unfortunately, life happened and I haven't had a chance to brew it yet. Still planning on it though.

I brewed the beer two weeks ago. Thanks to a poorly calibrated pH meter I almost had to dump the batch.
http://beverly.wickedlocal.com/article/20160405/BLOGS/304059960/-1/blogs01

Bottling today and the samples taste pretty darn close! View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462120401.566906.jpg

I bottled this last weekend (see my earlier post for the tweaks I made to the recipe). Added 3oz 88% lactic acid to the bottling bucket, and enough priming sugar to carb to 3.2vol CO2. I'll post a tasting update in a couple weeks.

For reference, here's the final recipe. I'll update in a week with first tasting notes.

Title: Grapefruit Gosebusters
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Gose
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.4 gallons (fermenter volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Efficiency: 67%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.008
ABV (standard): 5.5%
IBU (tinseth): 12
SRM (morey): 4

FERMENTABLES:
5 lb - American - Pilsner Malt
5 lb - American - White Wheat Malt
0.75 lb - American - Acidulated Malt

HOPS:
0.75 oz - German Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 4%, Use: Bittering, IBU: 12

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 149 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 3.75gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.4 qt/lb
Note: Only added 2oz of acidulated malt to the initial mash. After 35 minutes, I added the remaining 10oz and mashed for an additional 25 minutes.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.25 tsp - Fermax Yeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
24 grams - Kosher Salt, Time: 5 min
24 grams - Crushed Coriander Seeds, Time: 5 min (bagged, not transferred to carboy)
Grated zest of two Grapefruits, Time: 5 min (bagged, not transferred to carboy)
3 ounces - 88% liquid Lactic Acid, Time: Bottling

YEAST:
Wyeast 1007 - German Ale
Starter: Yes - 2 Liters
Attenuation (apparent): 84%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 55 - 68 F
Fermentation Temp: 63 F

Juno_Malone said:

For reference, here's the final recipe. I'll update in a week with first tasting notes.

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This looks awesome, looking forward to reading your results!

Any updates?

joebrewsbeer said:

Any updates?

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Oops, totally forgot about this thread. Beer turned out great! Some notes:

• Grapefruit is very subtle if not undetectable. I kind of expected this, as I wasn't sure how much would be too much and I didn't want to overpower the beer. Might upgrade this to zest of 3-4 grapefruits next time.
• There's a slight buttery flavor. I don't think it's diacetyl because I did a diacetyl rest, so my guess is it's from the lactic acid (which has kind of a similar buttery smell). I might dial it back to 2-2.5 oz next time.
• I'll probably use a little more salt next time, maybe a full ounce. 21g is pretty subtle in this batch.

I'll tweak this a bit next year, but it's already a summer favorite!

pedio makes diacetyl, too.

you might also have had a slugging completion to fermentation where the yeast didn't process the diacetyl completely. i would not compare lactic acid to butter. it's possible you've observed both diacetyl and lactic acid in the same beer, but that was likely in an immature pedio-fueled sour.

ddrrseio said:

pedio makes diacetyl, too.

you might also have had a slugging completion to fermentation where the yeast didn't process the diacetyl completely. i would not compare lactic acid to butter. it's possible you've observed both diacetyl and lactic acid in the same beer, but that was likely in an immature pedio-fueled sour.

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Pedio and lacto both produce diacetyl, but he didn't use either in is recipe. He added straight lactic acid.

Anyone care to take a stab at cloning WB's key lime pie gose? I finally got my hands on a 4 pack the other week and mother of God is it amazing. I like WB's base gose. But the key lime pie gose is exponentially better. I could chug it. They only release it once a year (sometimes less) and it's a one 4 pack per person and usually any shop in town that gets it is sold out within hours. We need to clone this variant! Any thoughts??

TravelingLight said:

Anyone care to take a stab at cloning WB's key lime pie gose? I finally got my hands on a 4 pack the other week and mother of God is it amazing. I like WB's base gose. But the key lime pie gose is exponentially better. I could chug it. They only release it once a year (sometimes less) and it's a one 4 pack per person and usually any shop in town that gets it is sold out within hours. We need to clone this variant! Any thoughts??

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Not a WB key lime Gose, but I did a semi-clone of an Anderson Valley Briny Melon Gose just on tap. AMAZING. I made a post this morning on the recipe forum.

I like using Omega OYL-605 to kettle sour. My basic salt/coriander Gose is really good and I like it about the same at WB's standard Gose which is saying quite a lot.

Let me know what you think of the melon Gose post if you get a chance to look.

bruhaha said:

Not a WB key lime Gose, but I did a semi-clone of an Anderson Valley Briny Melon Gose just on tap. AMAZING. I made a post this morning on the recipe forum.

I like using Omega OYL-605 to kettle sour. My basic salt/coriander Gose is really good and I like it about the same at WB's standard Gose which is saying quite a lot.

Let me know what you think of the melon Gose post if you get a chance to look.

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Just saw that thread! I'm very intrigued. I dig the briny melon gose. I was a little confused on your watermelon puree method...

TravelingLight said:

Just saw that thread! I'm very intrigued. I dig the briny melon gose. I was a little confused on your watermelon puree method...

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Ok, I juiced a watermelon by squeezing it and straining (mesh strainer) the pulp to keep the solids out. Filled up a one half gallon empty milk jug with the fresh juice. Next, freeze solid. **Remember as a kid eating frozen popsicles? When they start melting, sucking on them the flavors are sweet, then you are left with a block of ice that isn't so sweet anyone?

Take the lid off your frozen jug and set upside down over the open top of a one quart mason jar to collect the drippings. Leave on your screen porch and let it melt and the good stuff drips out of the jug first. Allow about 4 or 5 hours for this to happen. Collect a full quart of the drippings and this is a level one concentrate. Take that level one quart of drippings and put into a new jug and do the same thing....freeze solid and let melt/drip. This time the level one concentrated quart will drip and collect half of that which is 16oz of level two concentrate. If you taste this concentrate it is SUPER sweet and this is the concentrate you'll add to the finished Gose.

bruhaha said:

Ok, I juiced a watermelon by squeezing it and straining (mesh strainer) the pulp to keep the solids out. Filled up a one half gallon empty milk jug with the fresh juice. Next, freeze solid. **Remember as a kid eating frozen popsicles? When they start melting, sucking on them the flavors are sweet, then you are left with a block of ice that isn't so sweet anyone?

Take the lid off your frozen jug and set upside down over the open top of a one quart mason jar to collect the drippings. Leave on your screen porch and let it melt and the good stuff drips out of the jug first. Allow about 4 or 5 hours for this to happen. Collect a full quart of the drippings and this is a level one concentrate. Take that level one quart of drippings and put into a new jug and do the same thing....freeze solid and let melt/drip. This time the level one concentrated quart will drip and collect half of that which is 16oz of level two concentrate. If you taste this concentrate it is SUPER sweet and this is the concentrate you'll add to the finished Gose.

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Ahhh that makes total sense! In essence, you're just separating out the sweet syrup in the melon from the watery stuff and repeating to further concentrate it. Kind of like stepping up a starter...except you're stepping...down?? Maybe not the best analogy, but I totally get your process now. That's a great way of doing it and I would have never thought to do it that way.

Question: is this your method just for watermelon or do you employ it with other fruits as well?

TravelingLight said:

Ahhh that makes total sense! In essence, you're just separating out the sweet syrup in the melon from the watery stuff and repeating to further concentrate it. Kind of like stepping up a starter...except you're stepping...down?? Maybe not the best analogy, but I totally get your process now. That's a great way of doing it and I would have never thought to do it that way.

Question: is this your method just for watermelon or do you employ it with other fruits as well?

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Yeah! Just like steeping up a starter but stepping down in this case. When the good stuff drips out, you'll be left with a kind of weak, watery ice block that isn't too sweet.

I don't see why this method wouldn't work for other juices. My understanding is that commercial companies use this same method on a larger scale for canned, frozen concentrates. So, I thought I'd try that with pineapple to add to a spicy Jalapeno Saison I have in primary as we speak.

I tried a flavor extract before but it tastes artificial to me. Ain't nothing like the real thing!