Not a typical infection question

So, I'm just curious. I have read that the reason for wanting to cool the wort and pitch ASAP is to help prevent baddies overwhelming the yeast when going into a primary if sanitization practices didn't stop baddies in the first place. If this is the case, what happens to the baddies? Is there a chance after fermentation that the baddies come back?

I try and practice sanitization methods that are probably over kill. However, I just finished a brew this past weekend and it's fermenting like crazy and realized that I missed a sanitization step. I use a wort chiller and boiled the coils for 15 to 20 minutes. However I didn't submerge the vinyl hosing that connects it to my sink and drains in my sanitizer prior to boil. Not a big deal usually, but this time I had the BRILLIANT idea to use my wort chiller to fill my bucket for simplicity after I got the wort down to 65F. Ok Ok....I had a few homebrews and was getting lazy. It didn't dawn on me until the following morning that I didn't sanitize the hose that I used to fill with until it was obviously too late.

So long story short, I'm not freaking out or anything as it is fermenting, just wondering what happens if there was baddies that got in the primary from the unsanitized hose. The yeast are doing their thing and it's actively fermenting. 3-5 bubbles every second or so yesterday.

I don't really follow your process with the wort chiller, but there will always be "baddies" in your wort. Sanitation reduces them to insignificant levels.

I would be hesitant to boil vinyl in my wort too.

You would notice a vinegary smell coming out of the airlock or sour taste when you take a sample in a few days. It is probably much to early to tell. Also keep your eye out for a film (not remaining krausen) on the side of your carboy/bucket and the top layer of your beer.

Look around in the photo forum or lambic section for some pics of a truly infected beer and you will get a slight idea of what it may look like but all pelicles (visible signs of infection) can look different. Maybe search for "young pelicle" because a lot of the pics you will find are from sour beers that have been conditioning for a while.

Yeah, I was just curious what happens to the baddies once the yeast take over. I boil the coils, but the vinyl tubing I usually sanitize by submerging them in my sanitization solution. I didn't do that this time. I just left them connected to the chiller and the tubing got a bit hot while the coils boiled, but I kept them cool enough by just blasting some water through it. It stopped the boil for a fraction of a second, but kept the vinyl tubing from melting. It seemed to work just fine. I just didn't think about the inside of the hose not being sanitized when I went to top off the bucket. I normally don't top off like that. I'm not too worried, just curious what happens to the baddies if they were in fact introduced via the unsanitized hose, but yeast took over and it's actively fermenting. I'm primarily curious as to once the fermenting stops...if there were baddies, could they take back over once the fermenting stops and create a problem.

Brewnoob1 said:

. I'm primarily curious as to once the fermenting stops...if there were baddies, could they take back over once the fermenting stops and create a problem.

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Since nothing goes through your wort chiller except water, there is really no food source for bacteria or other contaminants to use to form a potentially infectious colony. I think you will be fine. And also since you did flow water through the coil during boil, you probably killed anything that was there (even in the vinyl tubing).

You are not going to kill off every contaminant; don't think there isn't sh#t falling into your wort during the cooling period. You will have some insignificant levels of bacteria in every beer, but they will never be able to compete with your yeast unless you really messed up.

My point is that beer is very forgiving.

That's what I was hoping. Thanks for the feedback.

So, is there some basic science to the saying that you want to get the yeast in the wort ASAP so it can take over anything potentially negative? I'm just curious is all as to what happens in the battle vs Yeasties vs Baddies if they were in fact introduced.

I use a wort chiller and boiled the coils for 15 to 20 minutes. However I didn't submerge the vinyl hosing that connects it to my sink and drains in my sanitizer prior to boil.

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the copper coil is the only thing that comes into contact with the beer, so it is unnecessary to sanitize the stuff that doesnt, like garden hoses, the exterior of your carboy, etc.

the 'baddies' (bacteria) feed on the same nutrients that yeast does, for the most part. if the yeast is stealing all the nutrients, there is nothing for the bacteria to feed on and grow in numbers. that is how the yeast will keep infections away (plus to a small extent- the alcohol it produces helps as well).

That's right, however this time, I topped off my fermenter using water going through those hoses which what caused the question. I'm pretty sure it's all good. Just wondering what was actually happening with the struggle between baddies vs yeast when they are competing. That makes sense. So, if the yeast are growing, consuming the nutrients thus producing alcohol by product, once they are all done fermenting, does that leave nothing for the baddies to consume and with the alchohol present...kills them?

You are forgetting that when you first run the cooling water through your chiller it is coming out the other end SCALDING hot so the inside of your vinyl tubing on the output from your chiller is most likely sanitized.
If you don't believe me try putting your hand in the stream of water next time you are chilling.

EDIT: I don't know much about your new question of how yeast and bacteria go to war but you might have better luck finding the answer to that by starting a new thread in the yeast/fermentation section with a different title like "Yeast vs. Bacteria" or something that will grab the attention of some people who might know the answer.

When you have a dense food source (in our case sugary wort) you will get all kinds of microbes trying to eat whatever possible. The reason we try to pitch such high amount of yeast (rought 200 billion cells per batch) is that we want the yeast to eat all the sugars first. Whenever you are brewing there is bacteria in your beer. Period. The point is to keep them to a low level. Some sources I have seen have suggested around 1000 bacteria per mL is where you would start to taste the contamination, but below that it would not be noticable (you have roughly 1 million yeast /mL, so it is 1000 yeast to 1 bacteria).
The reason to cool your wort as quickly as possible is that while your wort is sitting at 100F+, you cannot pitch your yeast, but the bacteria/fungi/wild yeast are eating and dividing. If it takes 4 hours to cool your beer, 100 bacteria in your wort could multiply into 4000 (which is undetectable), but if it takes you 12 hours (overnight) to cool, that same 100 bacteria could multiply into 68 billion!! This would be noticable, so you can see that it is worth it to pitch as soon as possible.
Acetobacter (the bacteria that make vinegar) are a bit more complicated though, the only eat alchohol so you will not see any evidence of them early on, but as time goes by they slowly (2-6 months) eat all of the alcohol and turn it into vinegar. They can only do this with oxygen though, so that is why you have an airlock on your beer. No oxygen=no vinegar, no matter how much Acetobacter bacteria you have in your beer.

Note- I am trying to keep this discussion pretty straightforward, so don't bug me too much about the science.

Gotcha. It makes sense and that is about all I was looking for. I'm no scientist so no need for super in depth answers. Was really just looking for a high level explanation which you guys have done. Thanks again guys!