still no bubbles after 48 hours ???? HELP

After 48 hours I still have no bubbles and the OG has not moved at all ?

I just added some yeast energizer and a pack of fresh yeast to each bucket that I hydrated in warm water 15 minutes prior to pitching.


what could be the problem? I had a pH of 3.4 so I added 9 campden to my 5 gallon 24 hours prior to pitching. Could the campden be the cause of this stuck fermentation ?

What would be the next step is it does not move for anoter 24 ?

More than likely your problem is your patience.

Wait another couple days and if it still isn't kicked off you might want to re-pitch. Also...make sure your temps are not too cool.

If nothing in another 24, I would get another packet of yeast and pitch it. I think 9 campden is a bit much!

AJC16 said:

If nothing in another 24, I would get another packet of yeast and pitch it. I think 9 campden is a bit much!

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Yeah, 9 campden tablets is about twice as many as you should have used. Use no more than 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon.

I've already re-pitched 30 minutes ago so I guess I'll wait another 48 before I start freaking out.

I got the info on the amount of campden here and it seems pretty legit : http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm in the Addition of Sulphur Dioxide section

I don't mean to be snotty, but in the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for you?"

Seriously, following directions you find on a website (even ours?!?) is probably not going to always give you the Gospel truth. I don't have time to read the whole site to find where your pH and S02 meters lie, but trust me when I say that you WAY overdid the campden so you've stalled your yeast.

Stir the must like mad, to dissipate much of the SO2, and then repitch in a couple of days.

"How's that working for you?"

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... Not good !

This is my second try and I keep ****ing up ... So you say even if I just re-pitched, I should stir the cider all the time ... like every hours for a couple days ?

Yeah, you dosed it pretty good. Those tables that you see for campden vs pH are for wine grapes, not apples. Most people use 1 tablet/gal. I use nothing mostly and half a tablet/gal tops.

That much sulfite is going to slow the yeast down. After 48 hours, more of it is dissipated so your 2nd pitch shouldnt have as much problem getting going. I'd still wait at least another 3 days before pitching anything else. You can cap the carboy and shake it a few times to oxygenate it and burn off some of the sulfite. The yeast will appreciate it too.

Do you know if having to add a second pack of yeast could negatively change the taste of the cider after fermentation or it should make no difference ?

no difference

I had about a liter in a jug that was left over so I added some yeast in there and within 1 hours, I have airlock activity but still nothing downstairs in my 5 gal to which I added the 9 campden !

Added the campden Sunday
pitched for the first time Monday
added energizer and re-pitched Wednesday (yesterday)

I stir the cider 5 times a day since yesterday so how long do you think it could take for the So2 to be gone so I can re-pitch for the 3rd time with hope it will work ? I'm afraid the juice could go bad if it takes too long ?

Thanks

naeco said:

I had about a liter in a jug that was left over so I added some yeast in there and within 1 hours, I have airlock activity but still nothing downstairs in my 5 gal to which I added the 9 campden !

Added the campden Sunday
pitched for the first time Monday
added energizer and re-pitched Wednesday (yesterday)

I stir the cider 5 times a day since yesterday so how long do you think it could take for the So2 to be gone so I can re-pitch for the 3rd time with hope it will work ? I'm afraid the juice could go bad if it takes too long ?

Thanks

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With that much campden, the must will probably be fine for a long time. You could try a yeast starter- maybe use the liter in the jug and build it up with yeast, and add that to the larger volume of cider. More yeast will be helpful in this case.

One last question- you don't have any preservatives in the cider, do you? No sorbate or benzoate?

Nutrient might help. And you're not keeping it cold are you? Try and keep it in the warmest room in the house. Yeast is a living thing after all, and a nice warm room may speed things up.
My only other guess is you're messing about with it too much, by the sounds of this topic. Just relax and see what happens!

you don't have any preservatives in the cider, do you? No sorbate or benzoate?

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I assume it has no preservative as I got the the yeast going in the remaining juice in the jug in less that an hour ?

And you're not keeping it cold are you?

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it in a room at 20C but I can control that so what would be the ideal temperature for this situation ?

My only other guess is you're messing about with it too much

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Do you recommend I stop steering the juice and just let it sit there for a couple days before I re-pitch ?

20 is quite cool but not cool enough to really warrant the brew not starting. I use a brew belt, brings it up to a nice warm temperature, and you can pick them up for around £10 ($12 US-ish.)
All i'm saying is after 2 days, it's worth waiting another few rather than ripping it all out of the bucket and trying again - some are slow, some are fast. I've waited 6 weeks for a wine to finish and 4 months for another, there's too many variables.

So it's been 5 days and still nothing ! I pitched this afternoon in a small container to see if it would start and yeast floated on top for 15 minutes and went straight down after I touched to container.

Should I rack back and forth a couple time to dissipate the So2 or should it already bee gone after 5 days ?

I need help badly !

I think you should give it a good mix with a whisk, get out as much SO2 as you can as well as introducing oxygen to the must. If all else fails, use the 1G jug as a starter like Yoop suggested.

I just racked twice making sure to splash the juice like crazy. Should I try and pitch now or wait ?

I also have a starter that is bubbling as we speak so I could use that but I don't want to waste it if the juice still has too much So2 in it.

Next step ?

Don't bother racking- POUR the must into a bucket (sanitized). Whisk, stir, beat, aerate, etc. Really put the oxygen into it. You can do that a couple of times a day.

In the meantime, pull out some of the must. Maybe 1/2 cup. Add some water to it, stir well and add it to your starter. Let that ferment overnight. Do it again tomorrow. Then, add less water and keep doing that. Each time, use less water until you're using straight must and fermentation in the starter is still going. In about 3-4 days, you should have a well aerated must and a great yeast starter. Put the yeast starter into the must once it's huge and going well.

Is there a chance the juice could go bad as it's been room temperature since sunday (6 days).

Should I be worry ?

naeco said:

I assume it has no preservative as I got the the yeast going in the remaining juice in the jug in less that an hour ?

it in a room at 20C but I can control that so what would be the ideal temperature for this situation ?

Do you recommend I stop steering the juice and just let it sit there for a couple days before I re-pitch ?

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preservatives don't stop ferrmentation, they stop yeast reproduction. depending on how much juice you had inthe jug, it could have been enough to create visable fermentation just by the present viable yeast you put in. you really need to see if there are any preservatives (specifically sodium/potassium benzoate or sodium/potassium sorbate). if any of those preservatives are there you are sort of screwed.

you can get around sorbates or benzoates by ginning up a bunch of yeast on sugar or malt sugar then dumping it into the must. you'll probably have to wait for the sulfur from the camden tablets to dissapate though.

naeco said:

Is there a chance the juice could go bad as it's been room temperature since sunday (6 days).

Should I be worry ?

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You have an airlock on it, right? That's essentially the same as being in a bottle, so it shouldn't go bad!

at the levels of sulfite recommended on that site (2campden/gal at your pH) you need to use wine yeast, it is much more tolerant of sulfites and with the additions they suggest you have ~30ppm of sulfite in solution the following day, which would cause issues for brewing yeast

At what point do I simply give up? I've been steering this juice for the past 4 days (20 times) + a crazy racking where the juice was more that oxygenated.

It still wont ferment ... How long can this go before I have a reasonable amount of So2 in there so that the yeast can do it's job ?

Patience patience patience

OK so I tested with an ounce of cider this morning and it's fermenting so I guess I'm good to go. I had a 1.75 liter bottle 4 days ago to add the my 5 gal bucket when most So2 would be gone but its already done fermenting. I guess a complete pack of yeast will go through 1.75 louter pretty fast !

Should I just go with a fresh yeast package or empty the 2liter test batch in my bucket even if it's done fermenting ?

Thanks

You could probably do either? I don't really understand, but if you have room in your carboy with the SO2 stuff, you could always just dilute the amount of SO2 with more apple juice then pitch...?