early transfer to secondary...debate time

Hey everybody. I did a search for threads on this but I must say, I did not agree with the advice given at all.

So I transfered my brew to secondary after 5 days. I know 5-7 is ideal but its not very close to being done fermenting. Still bubbles every 5 seconds, tons of yeast still suspended, and none at the bottom.

I would have left it but according to my book, its perfectly fine to do what I did....however, I fear I may have to move it again because I don't want it to sit on a pile of dead yeast. I don't want to expose it to any more air but I might have to.

Can't recall the gravity specifically but it was doing perfectly fine, right on schedule. It's a wheat ale in case you were wondering. The reason I transferred it early is my friend's beer was ready to roll that day and I didn't feel like waiting two more days as long as I had him around to help.



So, sparknotes:
1. Can I leave it in the secondary or should I move it again to get it off the yeast when it dies?
2. Can I transfer it to a primary bucket, or does it need to go in a glass/plastic carboy?
3. Is transferring early bad?

Thanks for any help

I wouldn't even rack a wheat ale to a secondary, but since you did, just leave it. As for glass/plastic, either will do.

sundowner said:

I wouldn't even rack a wheat ale to a secondary, but since you did, just leave it. As for glass/plastic, either will do.

Click to expand...

1. I agree with sundowner. At this point, just leave it until it has reached it's FG and then bottle or keg. The yeast will not die for months - when it drops to the bottom it is not dead, just dormant. Most experienced brewers leave it in primary for 2-4 weeks, sometimes more.

2. You can transfer it to anything you want, really. In my opinion, glass is better for longer term aging, but hefeweizens don't need that, and a couple of weeks is not what I consider long term.

3. Transferring early can cause underattenuation. You're taking the beer away from most of the yeast colony, and the ones that are left may not be up to finishing the job. So it's best to be sure that it's completely finished, plus some extra time for the yeast to clean up after itself. Your hefeweizen will be more forgiving than most, but one common thread among many slow or stuck fermentations is early transfer to secondary. Everyone is in a hurry, but they'd be better off to skip secondary altogether than to transfer too early IMO.

Moving beer off most of the yeast before the active fermentation is complete is just a waste of time and introduces the chance for oxidation and contamination. The only justification to moving a beer to secondary early is if you really need the primary for the next batch in the pipeline. Otherwise, you should leave it for at least one week after you reach final gravity, but I prefer 2 weeks.

The pros can move beer at 5 days because they oxygenate and pitch about 5x the amount of yeast homebrewers do. The primary ferment is done in about 36 hours.

From How To Brew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

....As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

Click to expand...

You really don't do your beer any favors by rushing through the process...and yes racking too soon, and moving the beer too much can case more problems than help it.....risk of infection, stuck fermentation, under attenuation, and oxydation are a few that come to mind...

Slow down, your beer will thank you for it.

You don't have to be in such a hurry...you may nnot realize it yet..but you are not in charge of the beer, the yeast are and they have their own agenda and time frame... You want your beer to be the best possible? Then give them the time and space to let them do their jobs effectively...don't rush them, and don't take them off the task, becasue you have your own time frame..that will just result in piss poor beer....

This aint coolaid you're making.

+1 with Revvy

Sounds like you moved it from one priamry to another, not sure why?

btw... that big pile of yeast isn't all dead yeast. I doubt it's even mostly dead yeast. If it were, then repitching would never work.

rexbanner said:

Hey everybody. I did a search for threads on this but I must say, I did not agree with the advice given at all.

So I transfered my brew to secondary after 5 days. I know 5-7 is ideal but its not very close to being done fermenting. Still bubbles every 5 seconds, tons of yeast still suspended, and none at the bottom.

I would have left it but according to my book, its perfectly fine to do what I did....however, I fear I may have to move it again because I don't want it to sit on a pile of dead yeast. I don't want to expose it to any more air but I might have to.
...

Click to expand...

Throw that book out. Well, maybe not, but at least put it on the very back of the bookshelf. Go to How to Brew - By John Palmer and read there instead -- you'll get better advice.

Now, remember: You didn't ruin your beer. You may have made it a little different, it might not have BJCP-sanctioned flavor profiles and qualify you for the Ninkasi award, but YOU MADE BEER! Now that you've transferred it, give it a few more weeks without disturbing it, and then bottle away. I promise, you'll like it.

During those few weeks, read up here and on the how to brew website, and start planning Batch #2. I promise, it will be better. Before long, you'll be debating whether Tinseth or Rager gives a better formula for hops utilization.

Welcome to HBT!

I am basing my disagreement on the fact that, as I stated, the gravity is perfectly fine, so I do not think I run the risk of not having enough yeast to finish. Also, it is still bubbling away, so it seems fine to me. No yeast had settled, so how exactly would I be losing any anyways? It was all suspended.

That's my explanation. I've brewed 5 batches of beer and they've all turned out very well. I never claimed to be an expert. I was just basing this on the threads I have read, which obviously isn't every thread on the subject in existence.

There's really no debate...you screwed up.

Never rack your brew to a secondary until it's reached the FG. PERIOD.

A secondary is for clearing...your beer was still fermenting...you didn't gain anything...in fact, you probably made the process longer by making the yremaining yeast work harder...and you'll have to rack again for clearing...

I found this podcast last night. The first show I listened to was on this very topic. They did an experiment to see if leaving the beer in the primary effected flavors. This was done with same batches, part of the batch racked off the yeast, and part left on. The beers were tasted side by side. Most people said there was little or no difference between the beers. Some people said that the difference was big but they liked the beer left on the yeast. No one thought that the extra time ruined their beer.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr05-28-09results.mp3

Actually, the "extra" time cleans up some of the off flavors too.

I prefer a secondary for clarifying: I find I do get less yeast and a better flavor (mainly just from clarifying IMO). But that's from my own methods and preferences. No matter if the above HBT posters are pro primary only or pro secondary: we'll all agree that if you rack to secondary, it's best to do it after active fermentation. For me, it tends to be in a week....but for the beginer brewer, chances are they are having a slower start and attenuation. Only experience will improve your own methods (which you tend to evaluate by trying other suggestions).

If you're saying that the gravity was OK, yet yeast was still well suspended, then it sounds like you're not doing secondary as what it's meant for: it's a misnomer....it's for conditioning, not fermenting. If beer is still fermenting during secondary, then you might need to do a tertiary to get any benifit of what secondary might provide for you (which for those of us that are pro secondary, it's for conditioning the beer....not fermenting).

Stop the bickering and insults please.

If there's a problem with some one's attitude for the sake of the thread, good beer and the forum please reoprt it to a mod.

I don't want to have to clean up or close this thread.

It's a technical forum please keep it clear of personal coments.