ANOTHER mass shooting?

Gun control laws certainly wouldn't have mattered to this guy. He went off his rocker due to a corrupt city government that ruined his life and built himself a tank out of a bulldozer.

On the other hand, if the citizenry were all armed, it wouldn't have mattered either. In fact, the police shot at him multiple times but the killdozer was immune to small arms fire.

So yea, people can go on a rampage without simply buying a gun and going off half cocked.

zoebisch01 said:

I feel 'Gun control' is a moot point in this nation because we will always have a black market. You can't make it go away. One of the only real successful nations to implement a gun control methodology is Japan. And it is not 100% effective because the Japanese gangsters still obtain and use guns (from the black market illegally). And more importantly it comes with a HUGE price in that basically the police can search you at any time for reasonable suspicion of carrying a firearm (or sword). And And the other side of the coin is that the police themselves do not generally carry firearms. Does anyone ever see that happening here?

The only way gun control would ever be effective would be to implement a police state, and quite frankly I say "no thanks". The solution? I don't claim to have one or know what should be done...but for starters we could probably do a better job as a society from isolating ourselves from one another. Most cases the people in mass shootings are disturbed individuals. People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.

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Even Japan's gun laws haven't stopped the problem of crazy people doing bad things. Just remember the guy who went on a knife rampage in 2001.

If people think that banning guns would fix this, go take a flight somewhere and see all the different things that the TSA bans. If guns were the only threat out there, why are box cutters now banned? Oh wait, that's right, a group of people were so determined to do others harm that they found a way around the protects that had been put into place.

The recent shooting at New Life Church in Co is a GREAT example of how legally armed citizens can put an end to things like this. Yes, the gunman did kill two people, but had the lady with a concealed weapon not stopped him, how many more would the nut case have killed?

A little blog I found on it: http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/12/shooting_at_new_1.php

When I lived in New Mexico, you would see people walking around town, in the mall, etc. with a weapon in full sight (don't think they had concealed carry then, not sure now). Anyway, you'd have to be a retarded psycho to try and pull something in a public place there, except possibly in "Gun Free Zones".

Kodos: It looks like the Earthlings won.

Kang: Did they? Right now they have a board with a nail in it. But they won't stop there. Soon they will make bigger boards with bigger nails until they make a board with a nail in it so big it will destroy them all!

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence. Based on how much we consume, we just can't get enough of the stuff.

njnear76 said:

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence.

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As absurd as the movie was, there was one thing to take home from "Bowling for Columbine": the fact that up in Canadia, there are many more guns per capita, but the gun crime rate is much lower. So is getting rid of the guns really the answer?

njnear76 said:

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence.

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Not sure about society being based on fear and violence, but I would definitely say the problem is "them." I'm so sick and tired of these little rat-punks thinging they have to be "hard-core."

It was a 6'4", 140 lbs little b!tch punk that probably got picked on and wanted to show everyone up. These d@mn kids these days are so wussified that they can't take their lumps like a man. I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

srm775 said:

Not sure about society being based on fear and violence, but I would definitely say the problem is "them." I'm so sick and tired of these little rat-punks thinging they have to be "hard-core."

It was a 6'4", 140 lbs little b!tch punk that probably got picked on and wanted to show everyone up. These d@mn kids these days are so wussified that they can't take their lumps like a man. I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

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That's harsher than I would've put it, but I agree that so many people under the age of 25 (for instancel) can't cope with life. So many people my age and younger have no problems, yet they medicate or self-medicate. Meanwhile people like my grandfather slept on a park bench when he was 16 and is one of the happiest people I know. Too many "generation me" mindsets out there...

srm775 said:

I hope as soon as his name is released (in about 10 min.) someone goes to his house and beats the crap out of his parents for not teaching him to be a man. Just like they should have done with that VA-Tech kid.

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Well, you are right that it all comes down to how the kid was raised. The parents should be keeping tabs on their kids and teaching them that getting teased and made fun of happens to everyone and it's no big deal.

Every time something like this happens, it is all over the news. Instantly making the murderer into a martyr for disenfranchised losers. In their eyes he got even and that makes him their hero. It's disgusting, but that is what some of these kids think when see a story like this on the evening news.

Driving home yesterday, I saw three black, unmarked suburbans heading from the City to Dekalb. I'm positive it was Feds heading to DeKalb ... the only city in the direction they were heading was DeKalb.

Its a mistake to assume that people like the shooter are somehow "new". Disenfranchised and angry people have always been here and they always will be. 50 years ago a guy like this would have become an alcoholic and beat his wife, kids, and dog, and it would have gone on like that until he died of a heart attack at age 55.

What is new is the idea of the mass shooting/suicide and the public spectactle that follows. I was watching "Lost" last night and during the commercial breaks the local TV news ran sensationalist promos about "Another college shooting! Tune in at 11 for details!" It was disgusting. Now all the other borderline psycopaths out there will have another example to follow, and some surely will.

There is a deeper sickness in our society that leads to events like this. I don't know what the answer is, but angry calls to arm every citizen and lynch mob the parents are probably closer the problem than the solution.

I want to see independant research on how many of the people who do this stuff are on Zoloft and the like.

Hopleaf said:

I want to see independant research on how many of the people who do this stuff are on Zoloft and the like.

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Don't get me started on presciption med issues (legal, not the black market use). Not to make this a whole other topic, but good Lord the doctors are the new dealers. They do it legally. I can't tell you how many times I have directly encountered people that have suffered because of over medication or improper medication.

A friend of mine (before we were friends) started getting really depressed and suicidal. Comes to find out that the medication he was on, the doctor just basically kept renewing the prescription, was only supposed to be used for like 6 months with counseling. The doctor never informed him of this. He went off the meds and was better in a week. That's just one out of many many cases I know.

zoebisch01 said:

Don't get me started on presciption med issues (legal, not the black market use). Not to make this a whole other topic, but good Lord the doctors are the new dealers. They do it legally. I can't tell you how many times I have directly encountered people that have suffered because of over medication or improper medication.

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Yup, as I mentioned earlier they're just lazy. Instead of trying to solve peoples issues, they take the easy route of throwing pills at them. I had anxiety problems for a while and refused to take anything, but I was offered an Rx over and over...

zoebisch01 said:

A friend of mine (before we were friends) started getting really depressed and suicidal. Comes to find out that the medication he was on, the doctor just basically kept renewing the prescription, was only supposed to be used for like 6 months with counseling. The doctor never informed him of this. He went off the meds and was better in a week. That's just one out of many many cases I know.

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Doctors, as much as we want them to be, aren't omnipotent. They can only prescribe and adjust medications as well as the feedback they get from patients. Far too often you hear about people griping that their pain medication just isn't working and the doctor won't do anything about it. Then when you ask them if they've talked to their physician about it you get the "Well, no ..."

It's the same thing with anti-depressants. All too often people willing to be a passive participant in their health and well-being care. It's easy that way, then it's not their fault but their doctor's fault/therapists/psychiatrists fault.

I'm not suggesting that your friend was in the same situation, but you got to ask yourself, did he do everything he could/should to ensure the proper and best care for himself.

njnear76 said:

In my opinion the problem is not guns. The problem is us. American society is based on fear and violence. Based on how much we consume, we just can't get enough of the stuff.

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If that is true and is so bad, then why are so many people trying to come to America?

Why has America in just over 200 years become the biggest economy and biggest innovator in history? Could it be a simple thing like freedom?

Wackos are everywhere, but has anyone noticed that they have never tried shooting people at a Gun Show? Noooo, they choose to go where it is safe for them, a place where guns are not allowed by law. Laws do not apply to wackos and more people die from stupid laws every day.

donner said:

Even Japan's gun laws haven't stopped the problem of crazy people doing bad things. Just remember the guy who went on a knife rampage in 2001.

If people think that banning guns would fix this, go take a flight somewhere and see all the different things that the TSA bans. If guns were the only threat out there, why are box cutters now banned? Oh wait, that's right, a group of people were so determined to do others harm that they found a way around the protects that had been put into place.

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Hey I agree man. I was talking to the owner of a daycare once. She mentioned that they took all the toy guns away because they thought it would make the kids play 'more civilized'. Well the kids took the crackers at snack, broke off a piece making a 'cracker gun'.

It appears as though he was on some sort of medication

srm775 said:

I'm not suggesting that your friend was in the same situation, but you got to ask yourself, did he do everything he could/should to ensure the proper and best care for himself.

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Well the real problem is the common perception of doctors as being the guys that have all the answers. It is a much deeper situation than simply blameshifting to either/or. I agree wholeheartedly that the individual should be responsible for his/her own actions and should do whatever is necessary to 'get well'.

However, in many cases the 'responsible' thing is to go to the doctor for help and when the doctor says "this will help" I'd imagine that most people trust this to be so. My friend is a rather intelligent fellow who has been through a lot. I could easily have seen the case going extremely sour if someone who could not make the connection between the drug and the depression was in his shoes.

But to go back on topic and tie this all in, D) it's really quite clear that there is no simple solution to these problems...damn I need a homebrew now

I'm 21. I've grown up with this. When I was in High School there was Columbine. Now in college there is Virgina Tech and now this. My question is, whats next? Is this going to follow me for the rest of my life? In 5-10years are school shootings going to be work shootings? Then retirement community shootings?

I was in class last night when I found out. Our prof said something about it and I didn't know what she meant. I looked it up on my phone and saw that 18 people were shot in Dekalb. I showed it to the guy next to me and he said "That would never happen here." At first I thought he was just being stupid bc it could happen any where. Then he said "Because I have a concealed handgun."

It's probubly not the most legal thing to do but I'm totaly with that guy. Schools are becoming dangerous and even if your caught with a licensed concealed handgun I'd rather pay the $2000 or whatever than not carry.

I don't have my CHL yet buy my old man and I are going to take the test this summer.

Oh and for everyone talking about gun control. This is gun control:



EDIT: One more thing. While the MAJOR school shootings get lots of press time it just sickens me that there are OTHER school shootings that get just a blub. There should be NO school shootings. You know what I'm talking about, like a week or two after Virgina Tech there was a shooting at a high school that didn't get that much attention. *goes to clean guns*

Fact:
"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

If I was so pissed at society, obviously mentally disturbed, and planned on shooting up, say, a school, but then thought:
"Well, there is that kid in room 322 that packs the S&W 9mm, the chick in 227 w/ the .25 in her purse, the history teacher w/ the twin Kimber .45's on his shoulders and that really quite kid that always hangs out in the hallway with a heavy coat on",
Maybe I'd think twice... However, shooting unarmed fish in a barrel? Self preservation (avoidance of being shot) is a strong influence, whether you're nucking futz or not...

How many of these shooters were also motivated by glory? The media ensures they will be glorified for the kind of things they do.

There is a movement at my school to legalize concealed carry on campus, with a bill wandering around the state capital at the moment.


edited to add legalize isn't exactly the right word, their is no law banning it on campus only university policy, which according to the state attorney general is unclear as to whether it is even a legal policy or not.

WAID said:

How many of these shooters were also motivated by glory? The media ensures they will be glorified for the kind of things they do.

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+1

The media has blood on its hands for loads of problems thanks to their own agenda and their mantra of "If it bleeds, it leads".

And I won't disagree that copy catting is a BIG problem. I remember in the 90's I was in Belize and couldn't understand how there was so many buildings destroyed, the amounts of graffitti and the sounds of gunshots in the night. I asked a native young man about his perception. Basically what he was saying was that there never was gang violence until the country got videos and media from the US in which the gangster lifestyle was glamorized. There will always be violent minds out there, but the media has basically opened the world up to the horrors of the world.

That's one reason why I don't watch the news. I see too much horror without it, and tbh I have grown more and more disenchanted with the 'shoot-em-up' Hollywood theme that has engrossed our people for decades now, to the point where I rarely rent or watch that type of film anymore.

HERE.. this will solve it..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

case closed.

aekdbbop said:

HERE.. this will solve it..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

case closed.

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There ya go! I grew up close to there. Almost brings a tear to my eye.

Thirdeye said:

There ya go! I grew up close to there. Almost brings a tear to my eye.

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Sniff, wouldn't it be great if Austin had that law.

The gun control we have here is just about right.

If you NEED a gun and have no convictions or personal problems then you can have one.
If you want a gun an can show a reason for wanting one. Hunting, sport, collecting you can have one.

You will be checked out, you will need a licence, you will need to have your premises inspected, you will need to have a medical report, you will need a secure gun locker, you will need to register every firearm.

You will not allowed automatic weapons, you will not be allowed hand guns.

You can't just have a gun for the sake of it.
Very Very few crimes are committed with legally owned guns.
You are always going to get the criminal element.

But you will not get the average joe going fruit loop and using the weapon he has to massacre because he probably won't have a firearm.

orfy said:

The gun control we have here is just about right.

If you NEED a gun and have no convictions or personal problems then you can have one.
If you want a gun an can show a reason for wanting one. Hunting, sport, collecting you can have one.

You will be checked out, you will need a licence, you will need to have your premises inspected, you will need to have a medical report, you will need a secure gun locker, you will need to register every firearm.

You will not allowed automatic weapons, you will not be allowed hand guns.

You can't just have a gun for the sake of it.
Very Very few crimes are committed with legally owned guns.
You are always going to get the criminal element.

But you will not get the average joe going fruit loop and using the weapon he has to massacre because he probably won't have a firearm.

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Yeah, no thanks. Where you live, sir, is not a free country.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
--Ben Franklin

orfy said:

The gun control we have here is just about right.

If you NEED a gun and have no convictions or personal problems then you can have one.
If you want a gun an can show a reason for wanting one. Hunting, sport, collecting you can have one.

You will be checked out, you will need a licence, you will need to have your premises inspected, you will need to have a medical report, you will need a secure gun locker, you will need to register every firearm.

You will not allowed automatic weapons, you will not be allowed hand guns.

You can't just have a gun for the sake of it.
Very Very few crimes are committed with legally owned guns.
You are always going to get the criminal element.

But you will not get the average joe going fruit loop and using the weapon he has to massacre because he probably won't have a firearm.

Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly the same as we have it here, with the exception of handguns. You are allowed to own them here for target shooting. However, the laws surrounding these "competition" weapons are extremely strict, including things like demanding that you compete in a certain number of events every year etc. I am not condoning these laws, just stating what we have in place.

In the history of the country, I can only recall one mass shooting. A man named Martin Bryant stole some semi-auto weapons from a registered collector, then walked into a tourist village and opened fire, killing 35 people and wounding 37. Chaos ensued, and the government went crazy...

Thirdeye said:

Yeah, no thanks. Where you live, sir, is not a free country.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
--Ben Franklin

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thats stupid.. i don't agree..

just because there are restrictions, doesn't mean its not a free country..

by that logic.. USA isn't free because we cant drive over 70 on the interstate...

Thirdeye said:

Yeah, no thanks. Where you live, sir, is not a free country.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
--Ben Franklin

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I beg to differ. Do you care to elaborate?
Or in other terms would you care to take it outside?

orfy said:

I beg to differ. Do you care to elaborate?
Or in other terms would you care to take it outside?

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Careful Orfy, he might be "Packing Heat"

That's right, you wouldn't want to show up to a gunfight with a knife.

It's funny to hear all the people claim that all the problems with violence would be solved by removing the guns. I've lived in three states that allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons if they choose to and complete the required background checks and training. I've also lived in a state, oklahoma, where a guy with a grudge filled a Ryder Truck full of ammonia nitrate and diesel fuel and parked it outside the federal building.

Crazy people will always find a way to do the harm that they seek, be in through a gun, a knife, a truck or a subway in London.

Unlesss there were no gunfights.
Then you wouldn't need a knife.

Not meany people die in fist fights.

being a collector i don't see a problem with having a gun just because you want it.
i have 3 black powder guns that i don't need in any way but i wanted them for the historical context of them. i also have a luger, a Walther p-38 and a Mauser broom-handle pistol. the only reason i have them is because they are historically significant. i have other fire arms for my protection as well as for hunting. and let us not forget that it is plain fun to go target shooting. anyone who hasn't gone shooting before, should, its fun and worth understanding.
and to add an on topic comment.
gun laws should be suited fro the society that makes them. england has what they (hopefully the people) feel they need. America has what the majority of the people feel comfortable with. and i would hope that all democratic states would let the people have a say in what they are comfortable with. that being said there is a reason that our constitution has the second amendment(which is a whole debate in itself). its all about the peoples security. the question is how much they want to provide themselves or how much they want the government to give them. from these shootings it is obvious that the government cant be everywhere at once to protect and save everyone.so why not let us protect ourselves?
rant off

orfy said:

I beg to differ. Do you care to elaborate?
Or in other terms would you care to take it outside?

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word.

men used to settle their disputes with their fists, my old man did, as did his, as did us boys. never had a gun, never felt the need to have one.

orfy said:

I beg to differ. Do you care to elaborate?
Or in other terms would you care to take it outside?

Click to expand...

No sir. You win.