Guide me

Thank you Sir!

I am scouring craigslist for a used kegerator and Co2 setup for force carbing in 1 gallon kegs. A little unorthodox, but Im working with 1 gal batches while I experiment.

As far as stabilizing the final product..I am leaning towards chemical over filtration. Ie. Campden tab + K sorbate (or another preservative) before force carbing and serving.

I'm worried about this causing off flavors in the end product, I guess only one way to find out though!

Also considering heat pasteurizing w/ the dishwasher. I dont know whats best/easiest.

Ill have to give the filter sock on racking cane a shot, maybe ill try 5 or 10 microns just to clear it up a bit. So cold crash primary at target FG, and then rack w light filter onto campden/ksorbate, backsweeten to taste, force carb, then drink.

Open to all suggestions

Edit: Left jug is berry blend w champagne yeast, then 1.008 AJC w notty, then aging AJC notty on right

SonsOfLiberty said:

Thanks. Eric.

You know, im hitting 1.010 in a week or so w/ nottingham @ 72°F, so Im wondering how y'all ferment in primary for much longer than that without bottoming out and stripping most apple flavor. Im pretty new at this though.

Id like to go from pitch to glass in optimally 3 weeks, 4 max. Will I be sacrificing that much quality in doing so?

I backsweetened 7 day old notty and it was delicious and very drinkable @ ~5.5%. I guess im just trying to find a happy medium between speed and quality.

Inline filter sounds good, im thinking for me right now, of just putting a 1 micron filter sock on my racking cane when transferring to secondary and or tertiary vessel.

Click to expand...

For predictable, reliable results I suggest that you follow the established protocols and not try to rush your cider for the sake of gaining a week. You'll be much happier in the long run.

Use yeast nutrient and pectic enzyme. Ferment to below 1.010 and rack off the lees to secondary. At that point you can experiment with flavor additives if you like. Let secondary finish to wherever the yeast will take it. With pectic enzyme your cider will clear all by itself, no filtering required.

Sweeten, bottle, keg, whatever.. you've read about your options already. In 4 weeks you can have clear drinkable cider at 6.25% ABV (starting with 1.050).

Ale yeasts will leave some apple flavors behind if you don't crank them at high temps. S-04 is better than Notty in that regard. I've been sweetening / priming with FAJC and adding a touch (1/4 tsp) of apple flavoring from Nature's Flavors at bottling time. I get very tasty cider in 4-5 weeks.

Thanks Maylar. I hear you on just using traditional procedures. Probably better to get those down first and then tinker to reduce time.

For carbonation im leaning towards the low cost option to get my feet wet. Maybe just carb in 2 or 3 liter soda bottles and then refridgerate. Pouring when desired. I just need to get my hands on a co2 tank, regulator, and parts.

http://m.instructables.com/id/Re-charge-your-Flat-2-Liter-Sodas/?ALLSTEPS

Thoughts? Thanks gents

Doing 1 gallon batches is an advantage in that you bottle 8-9 12 oz bottles from one jug (after secondary). You can add sugar to sweeten and carbonate, then throw 'em in the fridge when they're ready. Rather than guessing at carb levels, I made up a couple of carbonation monitors that fit a 12 oz soda bottle. Check out the 2nd page of this thread for details:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=525085&page=2

I also have carbonater caps and a small CO-2 tank but I don't use them much any more. I get better results bottle conditioning. But check my thread on that here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=509733

Look at Keg Connection and Keg Outlet. They both have good set ups that use a paintball tank for CO2. They run about $100. You can use that with a carbonator cap. They'll let you configure things so you get what you need instead of what's in a standard "package." In other words, you don't need a liquid QD, beer line, and picnic tap; you need a carbonator cap. It might even come in cheaper that way.

Longer term, I would consider a 2.5 or 3 gallon keg. You can find them used for about the same price as a 5 gallon. I got 3 gallon beat up pin locks for $30 each, I think. (slowly converting them to ball locks with PRV on the lid). New 2.5 gallons cost about $100, but there might be sales where they are cheaper.

I started with a 2.5 gallon keg and the paintball tank/regulator. I only recently got a 10 pound CO2 tank. I was running 4 kegs on the paintball tank at one time. It goes pretty fast that way, but it does work.

As for chemical stabilizing, that should work. I especially think if you bottle pasteurize in the dishwasher or stovetop, you'd be good. I would probably do both. Some people say they can taste the chemicals, but who knows.

Be sure to sanitize the filter sock when you're racking.

Maylar is right about following the established protocols. You get better results when you try it the "right" way first, then tweak one part. You'll get to your desired outcome quicker that way than trying to tweak multiple factors at once.

10-4. Im just waiting on this f****** heritage blend concentrate. Im ready to brew some award winners over here, 5 gallon pail of the stuff is otw. Should make ~15 gallons and be higher quality since its made for hard cider (heritage varieties and high tannins)

Super pumped to run some experiments with this AJC and N-ham.

Ive chosen raw sugar (turbinado, sugarintheraw) as my sweetener. Best taste, mouthfeel IMO

Chose lemon juice over acid (adds another layer of flavor as well as bite/ tartness- IMO)

The old orchard ajc + notty that is ~30 days old and its greatly improved! Alcohol taste is more rounded, and more pronounced wetter apple flavors. Where is the point of diminishing returns with aging though?

Stealing your ideas for carbonation monitoring Maylar

SonsOfLiberty said:

10-4. Im just waiting on this f****** heritage blend concentrate. Im ready to brew some award winners over here, 5 gallon pail of the stuff is otw. Should make ~15 gallons and be higher quality since its made for hard cider (heritage varieties and high tannins)

Super pumped to run some experiments with this AJC and N-ham.

Ive chosen raw sugar (turbinado, sugarintheraw) as my sweetener. Best taste, mouthfeel IMO

Chose lemon juice over acid (adds another layer of flavor as well as bite/ tartness- IMO)

The old orchard ajc + notty that is ~30 days old and its greatly improved! Alcohol taste is more rounded, and more pronounced wetter apple flavors. Where is the point of diminishing returns with aging though?

Stealing your ideas for carbonation monitoring Maylar

Click to expand...

Some people rack for months and then age, but I guess most cider would peak within 2 years.

I had one last year that peaked around 4 months, but it still had yeast - no chemicals, filter, or pasteurization.

When you say 30 days old, you mean after bottling?

^^^30 days old from pitch.

Cold crashed another gallon @ 1.004 today. OG 1.060. 10 days from pitch, nham, raisins, store brand ajc. Alcohol taste is there a bit, could use a little aging and back-sweetening, but still quite good

Bidding on CO2 setup currently, already bought the tire pressure fittings from HDepot. Looking into oxygenating w/ 02 and airwand. I hear good things.

Do you guys think malic acid makes a better apple cider than acid blend or lemon juice?

SonsOfLiberty said:

^^^30 days old from pitch.



Cold crashed another gallon @ 1.004 today. OG 1.060. 10 days from pitch, nham, raisins, store brand ajc. Alcohol taste is there a bit, could use a little aging and back-sweetening, but still quite good



Bidding on CO2 setup currently, already bought the tire pressure fittings from HDepot. Looking into oxygenating w/ 02 and airwand. I hear good things.



Do you guys think malic acid makes a better apple cider than acid blend or lemon juice?

Click to expand...

Never used malic acid but acid blend would be better than lemon juice. I think cider is usually tart enough, but benefits from tannin. Some people use teabags for that.

Brewed 5 gals today-

OG ranged from 1.070-1.090
-High end AJC
-Notty
-0xygen

Used starter. Infused that w/ 02 also.

Trying some variations in raising gravity w/ AJC vs Raw sugar vs dextrose. Ran a can of blueberry pie filling (tasted amazing before pitch) and a gal w/ apple pie filling (also tasted fantastic. Pectic enzyme in these two.

Skipped the raisins, but yeast nutrient in the mail. I wonder if they're really needed...

Pointed air vent at 1 gals, and misted them w/ water, hoping this will drop temp down from 72 -> 68°F

Dextrose mixes so much easier but I feel raw sugar will taste better.

Good on you man. Keep us posted.

Have you tried a saison yeast yet? Give it a shot in your next side by side.

Thanks. Will do.

Ill try a saison. Any recommendations? Belgian?

7 hrs in and im getting overflow! I
heard this can happen w/ O2 supplementation (aggressive fermentations)

I hope the O2 and starter will help the notty attenuate fully. Then backsweetwning and aging experiments!

18 hours after pitch. Overflowing!

I ordered some himalayan sea salt. Seeing if I can make a hangover free brew (or at least reduce severity) any other recommendations?

SonsOfLiberty said:

18 hours after pitch. Overflowing!

I ordered some himalayan sea salt. Seeing if I can make a hangover free brew (or at least reduce severity) any other recommendations?

Click to expand...

That kind of overflow is pretty normal. Use a blow off tube.

What is the desk with Himalayan salt?

I use Belle saison for all my ciders, but have heard good things with 3711 too.

ericbw said:

That kind of overflow is pretty normal. Use a blow off tube.

What is the desk with Himalayan salt?

Click to expand...

Worddd. I just poured a bit out for now.

By desk I think you meant deal. Looking to reduce hangover effects. Himilayan sea salt has electrolytes and trace minerals. Also looking at adding hemp seeds.

I need to buy a minifridge soon too. Gah.

pricelessbrewing said:

I use Belle saison for all my ciders, but have heard good things with 3711 too.

Click to expand...

Belle saison! Whats it like. Ill try it out.

Belle saison seemed to leave more apple flavor behind, ferments really quick, and seems to me to have a bit more complexity than the batches I did with nottingham/s05 etc. Also I can ferment in my 72-75F apartment without any issues.

Ok cool.

SG is down to 1.028 after 5 days. I developed Rhino Farts from the 2 gallons that were above 1.080 (1.090 +1.085) I immediately boiled and mashed organic raisins and added them to all gals. My yeast nutrient still hasn't arrived in the mail. I also hit them all with another small shot of Oxygen.

Should I toss these or can I reduce the sulfur smell enough? It's gotten better, but still noticeable.

From what I have read, "rhino farts" are caused by stressed yeast. In my case, I gave them a strong start and tons of O2 but not enough nutrients. Temps were a little high at 72*F as well.

In the future I will use a saison yeast, or keep lower temps, and add yeast nutrient. I am pumped to taste 02 infused cider. still searching for CO2 setup as well.

Can anyone point me in the direction of free ebook on brewing cider and advanced cider brewing? Thanks all!

edit: any suggestions on an electrolyte source besides salt that I can add to cider? I was thinking coconut water but its pricy.

I went DIY on a cooling system. Super inexpensive and works well. I placed each gal in a paper plate filled with some water and wrapped in a paper towel or two napkins. The napkins wick better. Pointed a fan on low at them, which after a few hours dropped liquid temp from 72*F to 63*F! (The water at the bottom was almost all gone in about 6 hrs)

Now I can keep using Nottingham and hopefully next batch keep it 65-68*F, and add yeast nutrient. Looking forward to that!