Mash Control - Toe the Automation Line

I've been brewing for 17 years... just went all grain this January. I've done 20 batches so far... and am really enjoying the improvement in quality and ease of experimentation. My biggest frustration with my 10-gallon gatoraid cooler mash tun is temperature control... I've had temperature drops over 7 degrees in an hour (like my last brew) and gradiants as much as 10 degrees across the mash (like the brew before that). I've had it... I want control!

I recently ordered parts to do a direct-fired, recirculated mash (false bottom, connectors, any-way hose) and will do the maiden brew this weekend. I expect that I'll be turning the burner on and off several times thorughout the mash and am already thinking of how to automate the process.

There are several threads about building a Brutus 10, using the Brewtroller, and using the BCS-460, but I haven't seen too many discussing component selection (PID's, TC's, valves, etc.) for a single vessel control system...

Here's what I'm thinking for my setup...
1) Direct heat HLT - no control required
2) Direct heat BK - no control required
3) Direct heat MLT, recirc, automate control
- PID Control (like Auber SYL-2342 (has relay output))
- TC (like Auber WRNK-171 (K-Type, 6" probe)
- Solenoid gas valve (like Valves4Projects Echotech S20V-1/4-CD-120VAC)
- Need to find a thermowell and figure out a safe/effective way to run a pilot light... I'm thinking a secondary valve off the main gas line with a small capilary tube...
- I'd likely build the PID into my pump toolbox and use an XLR jack for the TC input.

That oughtta do it, right? Anyone done something like this? Any particular reason why folks automate the HLT in a direct-fire MLT system? (Makes sense for HERMS, but...??). Any opinion on 120VAC vs. 12/24VDC PID/SSR/Valves?

Ultimately I want a single-tier brewstand, but don't have the storage space (or agreeable wife... working on that part!!).

Any help/guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

You have basically described my direct fired RIMS setup. I don't have a true "rig" in the normal sense of the word. Modular would be a better description. I agree that it's not necessary to automate the HLT or the BK burners. I use a Johnson A419 for the controller on the MT burner. I use a valves4 projects 3/8" 120 AC valve. The valve is operated directly by the Johnson controller. I like that no transformer or additional relay is required with this arrangement. My pilot burner on the MT is the Honeywell Q314. There is no thermocouple interlink for the pilot burner. I don't operate the burner unattended.

Regarding the modular configuration, the two burners I use support the MT & BK. I use an electrically heated (bucket heater) HLT cooler elevated for gravity flow to the MT. I have my pump mounted on a small portable base, so it can easily be moved to wherever needed. This has proved to be handy for cleaning purposes.

So, basically I think you have a good basic design in mind. I would suggest calling the tech support at valves4projects. They are hip to home brewers and they are also friendly and helpful. Tell them what you are using the valve for and ask for a recommendation. They will point you to the best option.

Thanks for the reply Catt22... great to know I'm on the right path!
Do you have any pictures of your implementation of the pilot system and/or your controller setup? I'm curious where you place the temp probe for the controller and what you did with the wiring to run the solenoid valve.
Thanks again!
Mike

I don't have any current pics showing how it's configured, but I should be able to take some shots and get them up later this evening or in the morning.

The pilot burner is the Honewell Q314 : http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p

The pilot is fed from a tee between the solenoid gas valve and the regulator. I have a small needle valve off the tee, then it's 1/4" copper tubing to the pilot. The pilot burner has a compression fitting, so it's an easy hookup. I fabricated a small bracket to mount the pilot in the proper position, but that's easy enough to do. On some burners you can simply screw it to the side of the windscreen, but it depends on the particular burner design.

I place the temp controller probe in the wort stream flow on the output side of the pump. I bought a short thermowell from Dwyer (the Love people) which fits in a brass tee at the pump outlet. The Johnson probe fits perfectly in the Dwyer thermowell (once the rubber cover is removed, that is). So, the thermowell is directly in the streamflow of the pump output. Obviously, you will only get a valid reading when circulating the wort, but the digital thermometer will give you the grain bed temp whether circulating or not.

IMO, the key to optimum performance from a direct fired RIMS system is fast circulation. The key to fast circulation is to use large inside diameter tubing and keep them as short as possible, especially on the suction side of the pump.


I use a separate digital thermocouple thermometer with it's probe in a thermowell mounted from the top and positioned in the center of the grain bed. Actually, halfway to the bottom and half way between the center and the wall of the MT. The thermometer governs and I adjust the controller as necessary. I use a 1* differential setting on the controller. It has been smooth sailing for me and my RIMS.

The MT burner is a Camp Chef low pressure 6" cast iron ring type burner similar to what is used on the SQ-14's. The Camp Chef has leg extensions, so the kettle is at a comfortable level for stirring etc. I have the gas solenoid valve mounted directly to the Camp Chef burner stand. I plumbed it with 3/8" brass pipe and fittings. Iron pipe would work just as well and so would 1/4" pipe. I mostly had the pipe and fittings on hand, so went with that. I used a simple automotive type two wire connector (sometimes used for trailer lights etc) from the auto parts store to connect the short pigtail at the burner to a longer extension cord which plugs into the controller power lead. I did it this way to make storage neater and transport more hassle free.

Mydemtia,
I'm on the same path as you. I've been an extract brewer for 15 years or so and am now making the jump to all grain and looking for ways to control my process. It sounds like we have a similar idea for the control however I'm considering using a 220v hot water heater element for my heat source. My reasoning for this is that you don't have the pilot for the gas to consider. I don't think it makes much, if any, difference in the logic, but I thought it may give you something else to think about.

fish - I'd love to go electric, but that would involve running a 220V line or two out to my garage...
Considering a solenoid valve and pilot system will run less than $50, I think I'm going to stick with gas for this iteration... definitely interested in your implementation though...
I'm about to order my PID, TC, valve, and a few more fittings... good times!

Catt22 - looking forward to the pix...
I'm thinking I should go with a 3/8 valve (vs the 1/4" one I linked before) to ensure reasonable gas flow to the burner... although the burner port is only 1/4"... Thoughts??
On the topic of gas control... could I use this type of tee/needle valve? Looks like the upper compression fitting is smaller than the lower two... could be ideal for this application...??

I've also come up with a concept to get a TC probe into my pump flow... I use 1/2" silicone tubing with CamLock fittings in my system - I'm going to install a B-Style CamLock to one end of a 1/2" SS Tee, install the TC probe with 1/2" MPT on the other end, and install an F-Style CamLock to the remaining port... When I want to use it, I can connect this fitting assembly to the MLT outlet valve and run the hose to the pump... this setup will allow me to keep the TC 'permanently' installed and allow me to use my existing 4 hose assemblies without modification.
I think I'll chronicle my automation evolution in this thread for folks who may be interested... I just got my any-way-hose setup from McMaster yesterday... pretty cool/cheap liquid return solution...

Mike