Saison....Warm fermentation????? Why?

Alright I am going to make a Saison Brasserie Dupont Clone.
My question is why the warm darn near hot ferment temps? I see that the yeast strain likes a 70-80 degree fermentation but pushing it seems out of character for a beer that was made during fall and spring for the summer months. There I go with too much history for nothing.....anyway what does this bring to the finished product? I like to know why I am doing something at least what its supposed to achieve.

Belgian beers are known for their estery character. The warmer you ferment, the more these will come out.

That is the beauty of homebrewing. If you dont want the esters, you can ferment cooler.

Eh, I disagree with the comment about esters. I think the main purpose of warm fermentations with saisons is to assure a huge attenuation. Fermenting hot at the beginning of fermentation may produce more esters, but it also produces lots of less than desirable esters, phenolics, fusel alcohols as well as a few other problems. Regardless of how much you love esters, I think you will be better served with any beer, including saisons, strong goldens, etc. to start cooler, around 68, and then a day or two into fermentation start ramping up the temps. The beer will have much less off flavors that way, especially on the homebrew level when we don't have huge partial pressures of CO2 to subdue ester production in the yeast.

I thought that the point of ramping up from 70F to 80F is to minimize esters/fusels etc for most of the fermentation (days 1-3). Then when sugars are relatively scarce having high temps will allow for some ester production but it will only have a relatively small impact on the brew and minimize off favors/fusels etc. I'm probably wrong though.

Big "A";698919 said:

Alright I am going to make a Saison Brasserie Dupont Clone.
My question is why the warm darn near hot ferment temps? I see that the yeast strain likes a 70-80 degree fermentation but pushing it seems out of character for a beer that was made during fall and spring for the summer months. There I go with too much history for nothing.....anyway what does this bring to the finished product? I like to know why I am doing something at least what its supposed to achieve.

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Well, here is the thing about saisons.....they are all a bit different. These particular beers are hard to define. As strict as the Germans were about classifying beer, the Belgians were an equal amount lax.

There is an excellent history of saison beer as well as Beire de Garde in Farmhouse Ales. This book is an excellent read.

Some saisons are brewed at as high a temperature as 95 degrees. Saison is a farm beer and I have found a huge difference between them. They don't seem to follow a "style" all that closely. Good beer, still however.


Gedvondur

To put my own spin on what's been said:

The most desirable thing is to start it ~21˚ (70˚F) and over the first week of fermentation ramp it up to ~27˚ (80˚F) or more.

What does this accomplish?

1) Cool start minimises undesirable byproducts, like the fusels and overwhelming esters, while a hot finish gives you a nice phenol and distinctive saison ester.

2) A hot finish will give you unbelievable attenuation. These strains can be finicky - I've heard some shut down entirely below 20˚. Keep it hot, and don't be afraid to repitch if you have to. Keep this thing going 'til there's nothing left. (It helps to have lots of fermentables - sugar adjuncts and low mashing).

Now the backup for this: I brewed a 1.066 Saison with Wyeast French Saison VSS yeast. I started it at 70˚ and had it up to 86˚ by the time it stopped bubbling. I let it condition at around 70˚ for a couple months, and just recently bottled it. It dried out to 1.002. 1.002. Ninety-seven freaking percent attenuation. Aroma's really fruity, almost tropical, with a dose of pepper and some other spices I'm still picking out. Very much a Saison. You can read about it in my recipe pulldown.

Hope this helps. It's one of the most exciting beers I've brewed.

Start cool, ramp up. Fusels aren't a big issue once the yeast are done reproducing. You'll still get enough esters from the yeast, while making a big beer with a dry finish, without making rocket fuel. I got 92% attenuation on a Belgian (kinda a golden strong, but more the strength of a Saison) starting in the 60° and finishing around 80°. Once it warms up enough to hit that upper end, I'm doing something similar again.

the_bird said:

Start cool, ramp up. Fusels aren't a big issue once the yeast are done reproducing. You'll still get enough esters from the yeast, while making a big beer with a dry finish, without making rocket fuel. I got 92% attenuation on a Belgian (kinda a golden strong, but more the strength of a Saison) starting in the 60° and finishing around 80°. Once it warms up enough to hit that upper end, I'm doing something similar again.

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Here's how I accomplished that upper end in February:

Very Informative Posts!!!!

Much thanks Kai for taking the time to go so in depth.
Gedvondur I will definitely check that book out!

Kai? I am actually hoping to be drinking this one in July when the heat here in Georgia is really cranking!! I hope I can get it fermented out in a couple weeks Duponts only a 6.5% so I may not take soo long to mellow
Again thanks and thanks for the warming Idea! I have a small space heater fan I can put in my brew closet. I'll just have to move those meads & Cysers I am aging.

Kai said:

Here's how I accomplished that upper end in February:

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Does this cause uneven heating of the wort? Or, does the fermentation stir things up enough to bring the heat around to the other side of the carboy?

I think six to eight weeks will have it drinkable, so that's mid-July if you brew it soon. It might not really hit its peak until into August.

I've been looking on every other site I go on for almost 1 hour trying to find something I read several months ago. I can't find it, but what it was, was a reply from someone at Wyeast or Whitelabs about Saison yeast and they said let them go as hot as it wants to get the flavors you expect.

But, the trick to ramping up temperatures to assure good attenuation, you can't be late! You can't wait until the krausen drops to start ramping it up, the yeast will be lazy by then and very difficult to restart. You should do it right when you think peak fermentation MIGHT be ready to slow. Krausen should still be pretty full when you start ramping up.